Ilaveuse, you're talking about two seperate things here. There's a speed NERF when you don't use forms at all, which would make grapples impossible. Then there's a speed BUFF when you use 3 forms in a row, which is what they're trying to remove (and is instead being downgraded but not removed.)

Most of our grapples aren't really worthwhile anyway now that they're 2handed, possible exception for tomati, and shred certainly isn't (you should just cancel into actual afflictions that advance your plan, like slitlock or kneecaps/buggered elbows) so you wouldn't lose out a lot either way. Crunch is also being changed to not be retarded so don't worry about that.

@Daedalion: shofangi aren't exactly terrible even though they are the worst monk guild (or 2nd worst depending on who you ask).
@Shaddus: people beating Urazial is not a valid argument as I think he has stated himself, or at least that you could extrapolate from things he's said

EDIT: P.S we can't tendon, you mean mangle

Right, mangle.

Because you're so low might, you don't have full access to your potential. Your experience just... isn't very valid. You use it to beat up on newbies and lowbies in Faethorn for the most part.

OMG.. Okay.. I killed 1.. ONE newbie on Faethorn because Urazial does it 24/7 and I get crap for it while he doesn't. And not only do I get crap for it but I get labled as doing it all the time.. which is just ridiculous as I've been killing people above my might.

Saying I shouldn't be able to kill Urazial because he's 890% of my might is verging on retarded.. I'm sorry.

Because you can use the exact same set of forms, executed in the exact same order, to beat any archetype. You don't even have to think about what you're doing. I literally beat people as a Nekotai by hitting one button and sitting back to watch the "Fun".

With a halfway decent system and fighting even partially on your terms one vs one there's no reason you should lose.

You've done it more than once. I've chased you out of Faethorn numerous times myself, and I'm only on a couple hours a day.

And I am saying that at such low might, you do not have a clear understanding of the skills available to you. You do not have anywhere close to everything needed to be a combatant, you do not have the ability to tie them all together. You are speaking as if your class has no ability when you actually do not know, because your experience is just... well. Sub-par.

I think people need to consider changes in the making before nerfing the speed bonus.

If you can no longer add a raze modifier to every combo, chained attacks are going to be damn near worthless because you'll never be able to predict when the target will shield or have rebounding. As such, I cannot see anyone even getting past 2-3 forms.

1. Urazial does get crap for it.

2. Xenthos' point, which seems to have been missed, is simply that might = how many abilities you have access to = how valid your word is. Lack of certain abilities means = experience means nothing.

First part.. You must have a very loose definition of newbie.. because the only people I've killed on Faethorn was that newbie.. Sthai and I've chased Tynghall around alot. That's it.

Second part.. HUH?!

No, my OP monk spec is worse than your OP monk spec.

Stupid argument.

The second part is very clear, unless you are desperately attempting to pretend that you know everything there is to know about Shofangi.

To the first: I said lowbie/newbie, and I've chased you away from a couple of lowbies, and saw you kill an unenemied Glom who (while not a newbie) has never really done anything to Seren, ever.

First part.. I don't claim to know everything about monks.. it took me a long ass time to even make 4 forms that actually work.

Second part.. I want names.. saying "you killed someone that I know about" doesn't mean anything.

Was a rank... 300 or so Shadowdancer, unenemied to Seren, and even Serens were saying that she does absolutely nothing to them a few moments after you killed her. While I don't remember the name, it happened. And it sure does mean something to me, even if you want to pretend otherwise.

Also: If you're not claiming that, why are you saying Shofangi suck? Why are you saying monks suck?

To quote you:
"Nooo.. I picked the crappy monk guild with terrible skills, knowing full well we would get nerfed eventually because people can't stand dying to something they find "boring"."
"I'm just not seeing the lolOP."

Yeah... well, there's a reason you're not seeing it to that extent, and there's a reason you're able to even be as effective as you are with your level and skills. Try that with a Warrior, or a Wiccan, or a Mage, or a Druid. Or pretty much any other class.

Ahah. Heh... yay for staying somewhat on topic.

I don't grapple much as it stands, I prefer to go for kneecaps/stun/slitlock/mangle than a grapple.

So the next question, what about their 'poison mods' (which means?) makes Nekotai so amazing?

I've fought Sidd and he's killed me, which really isn't a surprise, considering I'm circle 64 and system-less. I think a one-armed Pureblade could beat me without too much difficulty. Anyway, the point is, losing to Sidd doesn't tell me much, since even just 'here, I am hit you naow' would kill me.

EDIT: Lobo monk, 7 health regen, robes, psymet... and I STILL haven't successfully managed to solo a fisher.

*goes and hides in a corner in shame*

You are basicly saying I should suck unless I buy 5k credits and trans everything.

Or I'm comparing Monks to other classes to disprove your point.

The poison mods themselves aren't the problem, it's more that they accentuate the issue (with monks) of being able to afflict with very powerful afflictions in a very short amount of time. Slitthroat/severspine in a single combo (or within a few seconds of each other) is an issue. When combined with Creehai (lowers poison resistance) this becomes more an issue.

No, I think what he's getting at is that Monks become combat-effective at a proportionally lower position than other classes:

Wiccans generally need trans Fae and near-Trans Hexes, along with mid-level of their totem spec.

Druids need Sap, near-trans in their tertiary (varies)

Warriors need to pay much more for armor, weapons, upkeep, etc. You could regard trans Totem-Spec as a requirement for weaponaura, but this isn't my area of expertise. Trans Weapon Spec is a must.

Guardians have similar requirements as Wiccans. (Larger, imo)

Mages have similar requirements as Druids.

Bards generally need trans Music-Spec, mid-Glamours or Ecology.

Monks? Trans Weapon spec and go. Acrobatics, Harmony, Stealth are just support- their key skills are generally available early on, especially in the case of Contort, SS, Regeneration, the works. Monks are the least power-intensive, too (if they use any to begin with) which rules out potentially needing very high discipline (made even easier by Harmony's focus body mantra vs. paralysis).

Now THAT makes sense. I guess I'm not really seeing the majority of the Shofangi's weakness right now, since I don't spar anyone much stronger than Mirami or Senna. (Curse trying to manual while in the midst of forms...) Anyway, they don't have resilience, so all my poisons go through anyway.

He's saying that a fair comparison would be to a druid with one demesne effect, since that's the equivalent of the lessons you have invested.