Sidd2009-04-17 04:48:31
QUOTE (Isuka @ Apr 16 2009, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Because you can use the exact same set of forms, executed in the exact same order, to beat any archetype. You don't even have to think about what you're doing. I literally beat people as a Nekotai by hitting one button and sitting back to watch the "Fun".
With a halfway decent system and fighting even partially on your terms one vs one there's no reason you should lose.
With a halfway decent system and fighting even partially on your terms one vs one there's no reason you should lose.
Who were you fighting? Try that against Talkan or Narsrim, even when he isn't in a meld. It doesn't work. Try it against Vathael, or Shuyin or Viynain or Ceren, or even Nathic. Talkan peaces me or something of the sort every other round, so I can't chain my forms together. I guess I'm not doing something right because that doesn't work for me, not that I'm saying monks are not OP or easy, they are, but I think you are oversimplifying it by quite a bit.
Isuka2009-04-17 05:35:30
if someone really knows what they're doing, they can stop monks. Most people don't have the skill. What I'm saying is that you don't have to have any strategy as a general rule other than "slitlock slitlock slitlock slitlock". You don't have to build up to it, other than firing off a couple of forms to gain momentum. You don't have to worry about application of health killling the effort you made to build wounds on their head or anything. It's really simple, and only a few people have the skill to stop it.
Edit:
Read as: I -suck- at combat, and I did fairly well as a monk.
Edit:
Read as: I -suck- at combat, and I did fairly well as a monk.
Gregori2009-04-17 08:32:11
QUOTE (Isuka @ Apr 16 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anyone who -sucks- at combat can do fairly well as a monk.
/fixed and QFT
Gwylifar2009-04-17 14:02:30
QUOTE (Jack @ Apr 16 2009, 07:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You're like American television, assuming the viewers are all morons. In many cases, this might be true, but you're alienating the ones who aren't!
They don't have to assume that we're all morons. Just the ones that their advertisers think they can get money from. Everyone else's free entertainment is being subsidized by those morons. So don't knock them!
Unknown2009-04-17 14:30:37
QUOTE (Daereth @ Apr 16 2009, 05:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why everytime I switch Archetype people want to nerf me?
Just as a brief example, this is a very small clip from a log of my spar with Nathic:
CODE
Nathic razes your speed defence with a solar eclipse shofa.
Nathic slices a solar eclipse shofa cleanly through the air in front of you.
You blink several times as it appears that he missed you, but then pain
blossoms in a line across your neck as blood gushes out of a long, razor-thin
cut.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
Nathic smashes your head with a solar eclipse shofa, shattering your jaw.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
Nathic wildly twists and turns, kicking his legs out behind him. One thunderous
kick slams into your right leg, which flails about limply as the bones are
crushed to powder.
Nathic slices a solar eclipse shofa cleanly through the air in front of you.
You blink several times as it appears that he missed you, but then pain
blossoms in a line across your neck as blood gushes out of a long, razor-thin
cut.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
Nathic smashes your head with a solar eclipse shofa, shattering your jaw.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
Nathic wildly twists and turns, kicking his legs out behind him. One thunderous
kick slams into your right leg, which flails about limply as the bones are
crushed to powder.
So, built-in raze, slower salve balance, slit throat, shattered jaw, and the crushed leg all in one combo. This is with no wounds. This is also me shrugging the poison, which would have caused slickness.
The recovery time on this is 2 seconds. It was followed very quickly by another simple form designed to slow me down, and 2 seconds later by this same form again. Rinse, repeat. I can invoke green to heal out for a grand total of 4 seconds (max), then I'm hit with it again.
And this is from the weakest of the monk guilds?
Back to the point, why not just increase the ka cost of the more dangerous skills so they can't be used together in a form? For example, make slitthroat take up so much ka that it basically can only be used with shofa/kick attack. That, or make the afflictions require wounds instead of being free. Either of those seem a lot easier than messing with the mechanics and speed.
Shiri2009-04-17 14:39:16
I'm gonna want to see logs of that 2 seconds.
Also, buck (the mangle), butojo (the slitthroat) and boganj (the knee/elbow breaker) are all going up in ka, but that doesn't help fix Nekotai at all.
EDIT: And making them require wounds would just be horrible. Did you see Celina's "75 approximated wounds added"? She's not even kidding. Also, I have no idea why people keep trying to make them MORE like warriors instead of less. Do we really need 8 warrior guilds? I don't think so! They're already the most boring archetype.
Also, buck (the mangle), butojo (the slitthroat) and boganj (the knee/elbow breaker) are all going up in ka, but that doesn't help fix Nekotai at all.
EDIT: And making them require wounds would just be horrible. Did you see Celina's "75 approximated wounds added"? She's not even kidding. Also, I have no idea why people keep trying to make them MORE like warriors instead of less. Do we really need 8 warrior guilds? I don't think so! They're already the most boring archetype.
Unknown2009-04-17 14:45:35
I actually think warriors are Lusternia's most interesting archetype.
Gregori2009-04-17 14:48:19
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Apr 17 2009, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I actually think warriors are Lusternia's most interesting archetype.
You obviously have not had the pleasure of melding 50 rooms, spending 2 minutes setting up effects, running around planting 50 saplings, then keeping that while 6 mages, 4 warriors, 2 bards and a partridge in a pear tree try and destroy you and your demesne.
Shiri2009-04-17 14:48:28
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Apr 17 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I actually think warriors are Lusternia's most interesting archetype.
All they do is swing weapons at people! They barely even use magic and stuff!
Xenthos2009-04-17 14:49:03
Most boring in what way?
Edit: Oh, I see. In style, not in execution.
Edit: Oh, I see. In style, not in execution.
Shiri2009-04-17 14:51:50
Well, I can see why you would be confused by my statement since the main thing that's being changed is execution related and my main point of disagreement is on style, but even if warriors are good execution-wise it still isn't ideal to have monks too similar to them, particularly when the style isn't different enough as it is. (Maybe that just comes back to harmony being crap though.)
Unknown2009-04-17 14:52:05
QUOTE (Gregori @ Apr 17 2009, 07:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You obviously have not had the pleasure of melding 50 rooms, spending 2 minutes setting up effects, running around planting 50 saplings, then keeping that while 6 mages, 4 warriors, 2 bards and a partridge in a pear tree try and destroy you and your demesne.
At least you get all the attention, no one ever goes "kill the warrior first"!
Shaddus2009-04-17 15:24:15
If the admin will refund my full amount of lessons for guild skills, I would gladly change to another guild and let monks be deleted.
Unknown2009-04-17 16:55:26
QUOTE (Shiri @ Apr 17 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm gonna want to see logs of that 2 seconds.
Also, buck (the mangle), butojo (the slitthroat) and boganj (the knee/elbow breaker) are all going up in ka, but that doesn't help fix Nekotai at all.
EDIT: And making them require wounds would just be horrible. Did you see Celina's "75 approximated wounds added"? She's not even kidding. Also, I have no idea why people keep trying to make them MORE like warriors instead of less. Do we really need 8 warrior guilds? I don't think so! They're already the most boring archetype.
Also, buck (the mangle), butojo (the slitthroat) and boganj (the knee/elbow breaker) are all going up in ka, but that doesn't help fix Nekotai at all.
EDIT: And making them require wounds would just be horrible. Did you see Celina's "75 approximated wounds added"? She's not even kidding. Also, I have no idea why people keep trying to make them MORE like warriors instead of less. Do we really need 8 warrior guilds? I don't think so! They're already the most boring archetype.
QUOTE
Nathic razes your speed defence with a solar eclipse shofa.
Nathic slices a solar eclipse shofa cleanly through the air in front of you.
You blink several times as it appears that he missed you, but then pain
blossoms in a line across your neck as blood gushes out of a long, razor-thin
cut.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
Nathic smashes your head with a solar eclipse shofa, shattering your jaw.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
Nathic wildly twists and turns, kicking his legs out behind him. One thunderous
kick slams into your right leg, which flails about limply as the bones are
crushed to powder.
You take out some healing potion and quickly rub it on your chest.
The deep damage in your chest completely heals.
2959h, 4931m, 5676e, 10p, 15385en, 22938w exk- <16:27:9.261> <-264H>
... ...
Nathic slices through your left leg in a graceful arc with a solar eclipse
shofa.
The shofa hooks your left leg, sending you tumbling.
Nathic slices through your right leg in a graceful arc with a solar eclipse
shofa.
The blade of a solar eclipse shofa shreds the flesh on your right leg into
bloody ribbons.
A magic aura flares around you and completely absorbs the damage.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
Nathic swiftly stomps on your right leg, causing you to wince.
]2830h, 5160m, 5676e, 10p, 15385en, 22952w <16:27:11.427> <-351H>
Nathic slices a solar eclipse shofa cleanly through the air in front of you.
You blink several times as it appears that he missed you, but then pain
blossoms in a line across your neck as blood gushes out of a long, razor-thin
cut.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
Nathic smashes your head with a solar eclipse shofa, shattering your jaw.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
Nathic wildly twists and turns, kicking his legs out behind him. One thunderous
kick slams into your right leg, which flails about limply as the bones are
crushed to powder.
You take out some healing potion and quickly rub it on your chest.
The deep damage in your chest completely heals.
2959h, 4931m, 5676e, 10p, 15385en, 22938w exk- <16:27:9.261> <-264H>
...
Nathic slices through your left leg in a graceful arc with a solar eclipse
shofa.
The shofa hooks your left leg, sending you tumbling.
Nathic slices through your right leg in a graceful arc with a solar eclipse
shofa.
The blade of a solar eclipse shofa shreds the flesh on your right leg into
bloody ribbons.
A magic aura flares around you and completely absorbs the damage.
You shrug off the effects of the poison.
Nathic swiftly stomps on your right leg, causing you to wince.
]2830h, 5160m, 5676e, 10p, 15385en, 22952w <16:27:11.427> <-351H>
I can post the full HTML log if you want, but this demonstrates the important part.
Shiri2009-04-17 16:59:23
Hm. Were the attacks consistently like that? If might be that they were, but if not that could have been a lag spike causing you to get the first message a second or so later than you ought to have.
Unknown2009-04-17 21:44:51
QUOTE (Shiri @ Apr 17 2009, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hm. Were the attacks consistently like that? If might be that they were, but if not that could have been a lag spike causing you to get the first message a second or so later than you ought to have.
It depends. Some forms took 4 seconds, some were in 2. They averaged somewhere around 3, but this can definitely be done in 2 seconds consistently once he had me hindered. Here's another example from the same spar, just as a proof of concept.
QUOTE
Nathic razes your aura of rebounding with a solar eclipse shofa.
Nathic slices across your head with a solar eclipse shofa, spilling stinging
blood into your eyes.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
You notice that your sweat glands have begun to rapidly secrete a foul, oily
substance.
Nathic slices a solar eclipse shofa cleanly through the air in front of you.
You blink several times as it appears that he missed you, but then pain
blossoms in a line across your neck as blood gushes out of a long, razor-thin
cut.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
A magic aura flares around you and completely absorbs the damage.
Nathic wildly twists and turns, kicking his legs out behind him. One thunderous
kick slams into your left leg, which flails about limply as the bones are
crushed to powder.
1034h, 4528m, 5676e, 10p, 15385en, 22458w xkbp-<16:27:31.091> <-443H>
...(snip)...
Nathic smashes your left leg with a solar eclipse shofa, splintering your
kneecap.
The blade of a solar eclipse shofa shreds the flesh on your left leg into
bloody ribbons.
Nathic smashes your right leg with a solar eclipse shofa, splintering your
kneecap.
The blade of a solar eclipse shofa shreds the flesh on your right leg into
bloody ribbons.
With a quick spin, Nathic kicks you in the left leg with his right foot.
Bones crunch under the force of the blow.
unparry
302h, 4678m, 5676e, 10p, 15385en, 22458w exkbp-<16:28:33.501> <-647H>
Nathic slices across your head with a solar eclipse shofa, spilling stinging
blood into your eyes.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
You notice that your sweat glands have begun to rapidly secrete a foul, oily
substance.
Nathic slices a solar eclipse shofa cleanly through the air in front of you.
You blink several times as it appears that he missed you, but then pain
blossoms in a line across your neck as blood gushes out of a long, razor-thin
cut.
Your skin is scraped by the shofa, raising angry red welts on the skin.
A magic aura flares around you and completely absorbs the damage.
Nathic wildly twists and turns, kicking his legs out behind him. One thunderous
kick slams into your left leg, which flails about limply as the bones are
crushed to powder.
1034h, 4528m, 5676e, 10p, 15385en, 22458w xkbp-<16:27:31.091> <-443H>
...(snip)...
Nathic smashes your left leg with a solar eclipse shofa, splintering your
kneecap.
The blade of a solar eclipse shofa shreds the flesh on your left leg into
bloody ribbons.
Nathic smashes your right leg with a solar eclipse shofa, splintering your
kneecap.
The blade of a solar eclipse shofa shreds the flesh on your right leg into
bloody ribbons.
With a quick spin, Nathic kicks you in the left leg with his right foot.
Bones crunch under the force of the blow.
unparry
302h, 4678m, 5676e, 10p, 15385en, 22458w exkbp-<16:28:33.501> <-647H>
Unknown2009-04-18 03:01:13
Right, moving on to the next topic. Stealth and harmony! Which one is better, and why?
Xavius2009-04-18 03:14:27
QUOTE (Ilaveuse @ Apr 17 2009, 10:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Right, moving on to the next topic. Stealth and harmony! Which one is better, and why?
Stealth for PvP, Harmony for PvE.
Stealth gives you options for misdirection, bursty offense, and noose. Noose is way underappreciated.
Harmony gives you things like bleeding resistance and massive stacking regeneration. Both of those are handy in PvP, but they don't stack up to Stealth's offensive options, and they're just awesome when you're out bashing.
Simimi2009-04-18 03:19:39
stealth is infinitely more fun to have/play with, if that means anything to you.
Celina2009-04-18 03:32:15
QUOTE (Shiri @ Apr 17 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm gonna want to see logs of that 2 seconds.
Also, buck (the mangle), butojo (the slitthroat) and boganj (the knee/elbow breaker) are all going up in ka, but that doesn't help fix Nekotai at all.
EDIT: And making them require wounds would just be horrible. Did you see Celina's "75 approximated wounds added"? She's not even kidding. Also, I have no idea why people keep trying to make them MORE like warriors instead of less. Do we really need 8 warrior guilds? I don't think so! They're already the most boring archetype.
Also, buck (the mangle), butojo (the slitthroat) and boganj (the knee/elbow breaker) are all going up in ka, but that doesn't help fix Nekotai at all.
EDIT: And making them require wounds would just be horrible. Did you see Celina's "75 approximated wounds added"? She's not even kidding. Also, I have no idea why people keep trying to make them MORE like warriors instead of less. Do we really need 8 warrior guilds? I don't think so! They're already the most boring archetype.
Warrior is actually way more interesting than monk.
And 75 wounds is for one weapon attack. 200 for a kick. Don't quote if you aren't going quote the whole thing. You also have stuns, speed and super stupid easy locks to help you out.
QUOTE (Xavius @ Apr 17 2009, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Stealth for PvP, Harmony for PvE.
Stealth gives you options for misdirection, bursty offense, and noose. Noose is way underappreciated.
Harmony gives you things like bleeding resistance and massive stacking regeneration. Both of those are handy in PvP, but they don't stack up to Stealth's offensive options, and they're just awesome when you're out bashing.
Stealth gives you options for misdirection, bursty offense, and noose. Noose is way underappreciated.
Harmony gives you things like bleeding resistance and massive stacking regeneration. Both of those are handy in PvP, but they don't stack up to Stealth's offensive options, and they're just awesome when you're out bashing.
What am I missing in stealth that makes everyone think it's oh so amazing in PVP. Truss? Rushing? Bracing?
Old rush was the only thing, in my opinion, that made stealth superior to harmony, and now that's gone. Harmony is pretty badass in capable hands. Narsim showed just how flexible and powerful harmony is.
