Gee, Celina, what about that omgwtfuppercut OP darts?

oh wait.

/sarcasm

Yeah, stealth is pretty crappy honestly considering you can tipheret out of truss.

I would argue Stealth is the more utility-fun set and Harmony is the more serious-business set. Anywho, upgrades away.

And as Xavius said, Noose is way underappreciated. So much fun.

Okay, I'm not much of a PvPer...I very rarely PvP, if ever. So maybe the contents of this thread don't apply to me. But still...let me just say that the monk class is not an "I win" button. If it was, I wouldn't die nearly as much as I do in any combat situation, even PvE. I lose pretty much 99.99999% of all serious duels I partake in. I'm not kidding. People here are making it sound like you don't have to put in any effort as a monk to be good at combat. Well, if that were true, I wouldn't be so averse to combat in general and would be ripping it up with the major players, and not have taken several RL months just to get to circle 50.

Then again, I find MUD combat pretty inaccessible, at least the kind that Lusternia has. I just don't have the programming knowhow or ninja fingers to compete. So don't assume every monk player is a combat monster - not accusing anyone in particular of saying such, just saying don't accuse me of being one since I can barely fight at all.

Monk is an "I win" button. It just so happens that your lack of combat ability is a bigger "I lose" button. It takes no effort. None. Get someone with some combat knowledge to tell you some forms. Copy. Paste. Spam. Win. I've seen it first hand.

If you suck, for whatever reason, then that does not reflect back on the monk archetype in any way.

Yeah, I'm really not seeing much of an offensive benefit to Stealth. Or is there something about Truss that I'm missing, beyond basic entanglement?

Darts are nice, but it's still one poison for a balance use.

Oh, if only it were that simple. I try to do that, but within seconds of my starting to do so, my opponent hits me with an affliction and I lose all my momentum as I fumble for the right cure. By the time I find it, that's more than enough time for me to get wtfpwnd. That's all it takes to kill me. One affliction.

So maybe someone with more skill than me makes the monk class unbeatable. Maybe I'm taking this too personally. But honestly, I had no idea these issues existed until I joined these forums, several months after I first joined the game. I was completely ignorant. I'm not going to stop playing my character just because of some game issues I did not personally create.

Monks are broken, but they are far from unstoppable. The problem is that it's very class dependent upon whether or not you can fight them. Nihilists, for example, can destroy monks because they hinder so well. Mages/Druids too. I have no problem fighting monks.

When you push the drama to these extremes, you lose credibility. It's no wonder Charune has difficult understanding what point you are trying to make because it's difficult to sift out fact from drama-fiction.

To clarify:

You can either hinder someone building momentum or you cannot. If you can, monks are easy to fight. If you cannot, you lose. It's a very all-or-none principal.

If you don't even have proper curing, don't comment. Your failing in combat is because of your lack of curing, not a reflection of your class.

How exactly was Harmony a powerful tool in Narsrim's hands? I guess aside from mantra Whoosh, there's the health regen and the Metal Spirit mantra for weapon stats. What else would he use?

It's not extreme, nor dramatic. It's fact. Shaddus went from totally inept to being able to perma prone me with critical leg wounds in 20 seconds because Ceren spelled it out for him. Yurika, despite being stun trained, managed to pull off the super instakill out of the blue. Nor in group combat does every monk have a nihilist or a druid constantly entangling or hindering them. Nor does hinder whoring actually help against a monk who prepped momentum before walking into your room and piledriving you into the dirt.

It's not "drama fiction" just because I don't spoon feed to you what you already know.

Wind mantra and one power serpent made him nigh unkillable. Barrier instas were about the only one way could kill him.

I just recently sparred Yukio. She hit me twice before dying. Shaddus well, he normally just dies. Maybe it's you?

Interesting fact! Yukio is actually male. I made this same mistake myself!

I blame Yukari/Yuniko for this confusion.

And Charune is actually a pony. /semantics.

Or maybe you could not avoid the points by making pointless remarks?

Maybe it is just me. I'm behind monks. Shaddus can mangle/pipe/mangle/pipe/mangle/pipe because of me. What the hell are you talking about?

edit: I actually know what point you are trying to get at, I'm just playing stupid because I've never lost to Shaddus and if I can stop Yukio's momentum, I can beat him pretty soundly. It's just amusing that you are going off on this "they aren't unstoppable" tangent as an argument against monks being absurdly easy to pk with.

My point Celina is that as an Aquamancer, I hinder well enough that he never gets past level 2 momentum so I don't EVER have to deal with him using those afflictions. The same can be said for Nihilists, etc. Go back and read what I wrote, and I think you'll understand.

I understand that your point is entirely irrelevant. I have no idea why you are trying to throw it at me.

Does momentum being preventable by a few archetypes mean monks aren't broken? No

Does it mean they aren't absurdly easy to pk with? No.

Does it mean they don't tear through people in groups? No.

Does it mean a monk can't pre prep momentum to avoid the hindering entirely? No.

Does it mean it's not incredibly simplistic to copy/paste a string of katas from monks before you and off you go like a pk bot? No.

We on the same page now?

I do believe I said (should I quote myself?) that monks are broken. Please learn to read.

My comment was that monks are not "instant win" as you suggested. It'd be really nice if you'd, once again, learn to read.