I hear you, daddy.

Hi Daganev I miss you.

(Hi Xenthos )

(Hi Shayle!)

Okay so I am curious since I believe it was Daganev that said he never failed anyone, just added special requirements. What do you do when you have an experienced player join the guild and you know they can pass all the tests and special requirements? Like for example, I started out in Aetolia. I was an Infernal and worked my butt off to hit GR4 and was able to test the Shieldbearers (novices) but when we had a player like Murad decide he wanted to join, I already knew he could pass everything...so I decided to turn it over to the GM and secretaries and let the more senior members decide what to do about it since I was still to inexperienced. What do you do and what are your thoughts?

Well, if they're experienced enough they can fly through the tasks and requirements. I would just treat them like another guild member. I flew up to GR8 in like a couple of weeks like any other person could if they knew what they were doing.

FYI, I was guildless till I hit demigod then joined the Tahtetso guild.

How did you hit demigod while being guildless?!?!?!

For my guild (since I'm Admin) I came up with a list of things that transfers should do. It's not a difficult list...mostly something to make sure they are being involved in the guild. There is nothing that says you can't write up a proposal and send it to your guild leaders for approval. Actually it would be nice if more people in the Aquamancers would write proposals instead of complaining that things stink.

Well, I was a Tahtetso monk. I just didn't want to be bothered by the guild while I was grinding to demigod. The leadership kept bugging me to do guild tasks, so I quit the guild and focused on my leveling instead. I also influenced to demigod, so no guild skills involved.

hax



Well, experienced players can usually pass exams that are designed to test basic knowledge, so you don't usually make them go through it again. Unless you want to grief them. For that kind of player who wants to transfer to the Aquamancers (even though I don't handle inguilding), I like it when we make them discuss or write about city and guild culture, beliefs, tenets, etc. All that abstract stuff. It's not something you can just blow through, because reciting from a GHELP/CHELP scroll is blatantly obvious, and it requires the player to actually think about it. Who knows? It might actually affect the character in some way.

I've never quite understood why people care about guild tests.

Most of them are complete and utter wastes of time that involve the arbitrary collection of items, large investments of time for no worthwhile cause, and often include at least some form of subjective criteria at the end so that the person testing can potentially fail anyone. My personal favorites are any sort of "combat related" tasks, which are usually developed by people who don't even fight.

Some guilds really push it to the extreme too such that it's really just a form of text based hazing. I'm a big fan of player autonomy. If someone wants help, help should be available. If someone doesn't want help, they shouldn't be harassed to do silly tasks.

I also think that requiring a newbie to gain sponsors to join an organization and then drilling them on specifics is retarded. Mostly when you seriously deny them entrance on the basis that their answers were less than ideal. All this does it make people want to suicide, start over in the organization, and that way no questions are asked.

Seriously if you don't like the reqs for the Aquamancers have Narsrim let Fania know.




I don't like it that some people give newbies a hard time when they are in the wrong organization, or in the wrong territories. I had a couple of kids who were in Celest once and I was trying to go through all the procedures... I was pretty new at it, but willing to give them a break cause they were new. I believe the one was Viscanti, but I helped her fix that and allowed her to join Celest. The other ported in just after we got back to the pool. Had so many people yelling at him because he was either Viscanti or Illithnoid and in Celest. We left the pool as quickly as we could, but by that time the two of them were so turned off by Celest that neither one wanted to join anymore. I think I and a few other people talked to the ones who were bugging the kids at the pool, but it didn't make up for what had happened. So yeah, I don't like newbie bashing either.

I never believed in giving new players an of the 'new citizen' stuff, not when I was an ambassador aide, not when I was a minister and not when I was a guild secretary.

And I always hated aquamancer tasks (I don't know what they are now though) but having to write some BS so you can get beyond GR2 is annoying. I am a-ok with advancement paths but hate how in the past the aquamancers refused to advance you without finishing those tasks. So I dislike or can not write, if i do enough other stuff that I am lined up for 5 favours after hitting GR3 I should be able to get GR3 without having to write a stupid story.

I agree with Narsrim. I feel like so many guild tests are arbitrary or essentially just hoops for players to jump through, when there are plenty of other ways to contribute meaningfully and advance within a guild. There can be something said for the some of the different path systems (or whatever other guilds call it) for players who are legitimately new and not sure how they want to develop their character. It can still be a ton of busy work even if it does help provide direction, though.

I think that the "combat related" tasks are okay to an extent for those that wish to get into like being a soldier and so forth but I think it is stupid when you set the tasks and there is no one in the guild that can or is willing to help you out with it. You are brand new to the game, might be using a client you know nothing about (I.E. Mushclient) because it is free and better then nexus and you want to complete the tasks but you can't find anyone in your guild to help you understand your skills or teach you the different ways you can use them both offensively and defensively. When I was Infernal I busted my butt in Aetolia to be able to stand against some of the better fighters during landmarking season and the only reason I got as far as I did was because of people in there that tought me. If not for Shikha and Thoros and Vathael here...I would be a hell of a lot worse then I am.

I think if you are going to create the tasks then you should have people that are willing to teach the young ones that want to fight how to. Encourage them, mold them, inspire them and when they get better they can train others too and to me that is how you build up relations that last and you know you have people that can defend the weaker ones or those that choose a different path. But that is just me.

I also think that most of the tests are kind of dumb...like learning your history is cool because it can help you build your RP but I don't have time to go and write a freaking report on something dumb like the cycle a plant goes through and then the one who made the task is trying to claim that it helps you better understand your environment...make it more useful. Like if you are a tracker then yeah...go and make a list of the different pathways you can use and where they lead to so you can find your way faster. Again this is just my opinion.

If you're Warrior and using MUSH, send me a PM and I'll help you out.

If your guild doesn't have a policy for people who aren't new, then I think sending them to a higher ranked person is a good idea.

I will troll for a moment and reply here: I think that disliking their reason for wanting to join Glomdoring is a pretty silly reason to deny someone entrance. Nobody comes to an org knowing its dogma and being a full-trained zealot (unless they are an experienced player or are just telling you what you want to hear). Especially if the person has no previous history with Glomdoring, it seems like there is no reason to require them to jump through hoops of any kind.

Also, what's to prevent the person from just joining via the NPC that inducts? Does Glom kick people out who join that way and force them to find sponsors?

Actually, you bring up a good point here. If he's new, he should've been able to still use the NPC's. I'm not sure though what the circumstances were.

When someone comes to me asking to join Serenwilde, that's the first thing I check. If they are really young I bring them to Miakoda to see if they can join that way. If not, then I have to send them to Nejii, as if you have ever been in another org you have to go through the Ambassador and get two or three sponsors first.

This is somewhat of a necro, but I rarely post so if you dislike it just don't read it.

I agreed with a lot of what has been said, but I've always been a fan of tests, even if they are immensely difficult and any old alt can do them. Gabranth was my first character here and I found it fun trying to learn everything as quickly as I could history wise after Aetolia. Magnagora rp is fairly straight forward, but a new player is ignorant if they expect it to advance without going out of their way to learn fundamantal things, which guild requirements often are. If you can't do tests then you really have no interest in learning about or joining your relevant organisation. I have never joined a warrior or bard guild for any great length though, so who knows maybe they are horrificially dull by by comparison.

As a guild leader though, it's a bit frustrating when people just don't try and I've never seen any REQUIRED test that was staggeringly difficult for a novice. I dislike failing people, but you can only make so much exceptions. This is especially true with post-requirement path/circle things, it is okay to expect a high standards.

As for commune sponsorship thing, I think it is incredibly stupid and done away with, but some things will never change. This has turned into a semi-rant, but oh well.

Time to return to uni work..