I personally prefer a mix. I like a structure for the first few guild ranks (the really easy ones)-- I've got it set up so that GR5 requires working on a specific set of tasks (which are quite varied and you get to choose what you do). After that, you can earn favours for work or for Spirit Tasks.

But early on random favours in the guild aren't quite as useful because 1-2 of them will royally screw up any sort of progress or meaning to those ranks. Every favour from rank 1 to 4 gives a full GR boost. GR5 takes 2 favours, though, and it starts to slow down more after that.

I guess I've always seen GR as more of a measure of how committed you are to the guild. Someone with a high guildrank has done a lot for their guild, someone with a lower guildrank, less. To me, favors are like public recognition of the things you do to help the guild. These can be predefined tasks directed toward a certain area, personal growth, leadership, scholastic, ritual, whatever, but they're things you're doing for the guild (even the things like gather thirty of every herb and one of every vial or spar at least three different people, because that adds to your effectiveness, even just a little, as a defender of the guild). Or they can be things you do outside the confines of those preset tasks. If a GR1 gets a guildfavor for completing some guideline OR for volunteering to take an active role in a guild ceremony, either way, they've contributed to the guild and deserve to have it recognized, IMO.

That's why I've never really felt the need to push folks to complete preset tasks or felt the need to deny favors for doing things outside those tasks. To me, the tasks are more of a "Want favors and don't want to go out of your way for them? Here are some tasks you can do." It always annoys me when there's some kind of group activity going on, like a ritual or a guild hunt or a guild arena event or something, and folks who don't participate, who only do the preset kind of tasks, later whine that they're a lower guildrank than other folks who participate in things regularly. Anyone can write a set of essays or gather a bunch of herbs or fight with a certain number of people - and these things are great and deserve rewarding, but it's much more an indication of your commitment to a guild and the community of folks that make it up if you participate in events and activities as well.

eta: reading back over that: I sure did ramble incoherently, didn't I?

This is silly.

Currently, a GR1 undersecretary is much more committed to the guild than an inactive GR19 ex guild master. (And should rightfully have more say in the activities of the guild at the moment)


GR should be a seen as a mark of achievement. Like grades in school, or what level of education you achieved. My college diploma is not a measure of how committed I am to the society I live in. It's just a mark of my achievement within the realm of education.

Well, I'm meaning completely outside of being trusted to a position, of course! Being given a position automatically means you're doing more work for a guild than someone who doesn't have a position and is the same guildrank. Though, honestly, if you're a GR1 undersecretary for more than a couple of OOC days and haven't been favored, either you're not doing your job and someone made a mistake in trusting you with a position like that or your guild is unfairly stingy with favors, IMO.

GR1 vs GR19... not the same guildrank Or GR3 even, doesn't matter.

Commitment is based on activity and doing things, which is what you have positions for. Ranks are a different matter entirely. Otherwise ranks would just be a redundant form of positions.

Well, like I said, that's just how I, personally, view them. To me, positions are for people who have dedicated themselves to always working for their guild - as long as they hold the position. And anyone in a position should receive guildfavors quite often because of that. On the flip side, if they don't do the work, they should not have the position. Other folks, who don't take on a position, can be just as committed, but it's not their job to be. I'm not sure if I'm explaining what I mean well... but basically, an Undersecretary has to participate and work for the guild (and should quickly gain GRs) in order to keep their position. A random guildmember does not and will, obviously, gain them more slowly, but should receive favors and GRs for the contributions they do make or, if they like, they can be just as lazy as can be and sit at GR1 forever.

Of course, I go along with whatever the rules are for the guild I'm in, in actual practice.

Daganev's two cents make good sense to me. His analogy summed up how I have always seen rank.

Conversely, I feel much more obligated to help my guild and commune because of the high ranks I hold in each.

I used to want to get GR so I could fill up HELP GUILDRANKS. Now that I'm GM...

I went from GR11 to GA.

Kandivra is currently sitting on GR15.

I'm of the opinion that those people who responsible enough to favour someone (be it guild or city )then they should be allowed to favor without the restrictions of a certain set of requirements or a limited list of acceptable reasons. I will not feel bad if I favour someone who deserves to be favored. It's downright dumb to restrain giving favours to people who do a lot of work or go out of their way to help their guild or city. It's even worst to make someone feel bad for favouring someone with good reason. Favouring is an ability that can be abused for sure, but disfavouring is there to balance it out.

Shouldn't this depend on the guild though? I personally like rigid, efficient conduct in a decidedly fascist, militaristic atmosphere (for my roleplay!)- knights, soldiers, nationalistic assassins- and I think that in guilds that will adopt this theme (if any exist in Lusternia...) a healthy amount of restrictions add to that.

Well if someone does something extraordinarily, wouldn't that be reason enough to favour them without having to ask someone? Rewarding for someone every time they clean up after themselves is silly, but if someone goes out of their way and cleans up after their entire guild or city, then they should be rewarded. They might have to go through more hoops to get said reward, but they should still be rewarded.

Yes, sorry, I was reading what you said from the wrong angle. I agree with you, as long as the 'extraordinary feat' gprs along with guild decorum.

The only thing I don't like is how some guilds have a policy of, "This person holds this position, so we have to favour them to hold this rank."

I'm not talking about someone being favoured to gr2-3 or whatever. I'm talking about someone at gr1-2 being favoured up to 5+ just because they got a undersec position or whatever.

Yep, I'm sorry that the Aquamancers implemented that policy myself

If anything I would have hoped it would be the opposite... prove your worth the first 5 + ranks, then we start raising you according to position.

I miss the Olde Knights of IRE.

It's not just your guild

I mean, I can understand if a guild needs someone up to where they can guildfavour or whatever. But mass favours just irk me.

What? Are you kidding? Everything is about my guild.