Well I'm honestly not convinced that angels and demons are really that effective as "guards" and "defenders" except in an RP sense. Aren't they usually farmed for xp more so than preventing people from entering Nil and Celestia?

I just can't help but thinking comparing the two is a bit of mixing apples and oranges. The Ladies/Daughters are a result of a power quest sent by Mother Moon/Mother Night, and their numbers grow as you quest and gain power for your communes. Angels and demons are natural residents of the Nil and Celestia. In any event, whatever we do, I do not think we would change how the Ladies/Daughters work at this time so factor that into your opinions.

I believe adding cubix exits to both the Ethereal counterparts is an effective solution. I am fine with either archways or original exits provided we keep it unmeldable. As far as Ladies/Daughters go, I actually do enjoy the quest that is involved in summoning them despite the tediousness. You could erase the tediousness by a number of solutions, such as.. Only having to influence three types of a fae in order to summon one, OR you could somehow convince the Ladies/Daughters on their respective aether worlds to move to their ethereal counterparts with a Empowerment influence or something. I'd rather not see the Ethereal Counterparts just become carbon copies of Cosmic, and I like the effect that Faethorn plays on them.

EDIT: We could also make it so that the Aetherworld quests play a part in defending these mobs. You could make it so that if Night is on the Throne of Darkness or Moon has been venerated, they'll repop on their own if slain after awhile

I am going to try to give a recap of why the arches keep getting changed. I will do it in the form of a mock timeline.

Day 1: Seren and Glom fight. People stand in Faethorn, outside of exit, and attack into etherglom/etherseren. Demense from Etherglom/seren exist in Faethorn (and sometimes into the opposite orgs territory), and anybody who attempts to go to the Earth or Water plane, or to gather fae is attacked by the Demense.

Day 2: Seren and Glom complain that people in Nil and Celestia don't have to worry about people just "walking in" and that it's possible to block Rifts and Nexus entry points when needed.

Day 3: Archways are put in, so that demenses and dreamweavers can't just extend out of home terrirtory, and people can't stand at exits shooting at anybody who is inside home territory. Celest and Mag complain that Etherglom/seren has no cubix exit so they can't "pop in" unnoticed like people can on Nil and Celestia.

Day 4: Archways are moved to nexus location, because guards can't be placed on archways anymore. Mag and Celest complain that Nil/Celestia have rifts and cubix entrances, but Glom/seren only has the nexus entrance.

That's basically how I see it. I think if you just "remove the archways" like people keep saying, then you are going to get lots of loud complaining as soon as Glom and Seren are fighting eachother again.

I think the best suggestion is to build rifts from prime/elemental that go directly into etherglom/ether seren and allow for cubix exits as well.

The only reason that people arn't complining about celest and nil as being fortresses, is because they have cubixes to get around it.

I like this. Perhaps boost the difficulty on the Lady/Daughter influencing just a little bit, since they're just whored now.

These are interesting ideas for tweaking quests but it's not something we are looking at doing right now. My only concession may be to give each avatar 2 permanent lady/daughter guards.

BTW, no one is really explaining the pros and cons as to why they want original exits back.

EDIT: Ninjaed by Daganev who gave the pros and cons!

They aren't guards. The ones roaming around are little more than fodder. People always laugh when someones dies to an imp or a fiend. I know I'm a demi with a chunk of DMP, but I can walk into a room with 5 angels and ripple, and my health doesn't even register as a problem.

The only ones that are "guards" are the archdemons/angels with the supernals/DLs that occasionally pick people off. Daughters and ladies you actually have to watch out for.

Aww. That sounds neat.

Pros that I see involving the bringing back of the old exits that I see right now are that Ethereal Seren and Glom will no longer be the 'Ethereal Fortresses' they currently are. It will also gives people actually incentive to keep watch on Ethereal and get active in defense.

But on the other hand, may be more encouragement for a bunch of 3 AM raids on the Avatars, Ladies, and Daughters.

I suggest keeping the exits as they are, and having some of the Water lords/Earth lords do some ritual which creates rifts which go from say The mountains of maddness, into Etherglom, and from the equilvelent place on the water plane into Etherseren.

And then perhaps have something from the south mountains into Etherglom, and something from the north mountains into etherSeren.

That, and add two new cubix exists.

I agree with the latter part. Though that's already the case if a group wants to fly in.

The same thing could be achieved with Cubix exits, and rifts. And not have all the negetive side affects of unbreakable demenses in Faethorn.

edit: I think people keep forgetting that Nil/Celesia, and Earth/Water don't have a Faethorn like area connecting them.

Estarra already said that cubix points aren't being put in.

Cubix exits would be a good temporary solution while other issues get debated. Anyone who wants to pop in and kill Daughters/Ladies is going to do so anyway irrelevant of the circumstance. They can already get in with an Aethership.

Umm how?



I was trying to give a recap... But whatever.

Well, considering demesnes, I'd probably say move the archways back to where they were. Still won't do much in regards to people walking in and killing stuff, but will prevent people with uber demesnes melding from Ethseren to Ethglom and such.

Why?

Would Ether Seren and Ether Glom get to do the same sort of ritual to open rifts directly into water/earth?
And why water- seren and earth- glom? Do they have anything to do with each other at all? Your suggestions seem to stem from the mag/glom and celest/ceren alliances

And... why prime entrances to the ethereal forests from the mountains? Would prime entrances to earth and water get made too, to make it even?

No, she said she would prefer if Artifacts didn't have to be part of the sollution.

But Imagine if the cubix exits were removed from Celestia/Nil and Water/Earth.

What would the arguments be then? Would Etherglom/seren seem like such a fortress?

Make it so you can't meld both Faethorn and Ethseren/Ethglom at the same time.

Get someone else to meld the opposite of what you're melding at the current time. Or, if you can have the demesne creeping over into the next area, make it so you have to be in that specific area for effects to do anything. (IE. If you're in Ethereal Seren/Glom, people in Faethorn wont be hit by your meld. If you move into Faethorn, they wont be hit in Eth Seren/Glom)

Do people not understand what a Demesne is? (honest question)

If I meld from Ethereal Mother to Ethereal Ravenwood ( I can't but assuming I could) then I have to be in each distinct Zone for my affects to hit. It doesn't matter if I make an uber demesne. If I am not in faethorn then my affects are not hitting people in faethorn. If I am not in Ethereal Glomdoring then my affects are not hitting people in Ethereal Glomdoring. Which means my 'uber demesne' is about as useless as tits on a frog and being broken by enemy mages/druids.