Waning Crescent. It was after the Full Moon and before the New Moon so theoretically, they should have been in their "weaker" state (they are totally invulnerable during the New Moon). In any case, it's really quite moot. I've attacked them during the New and Full Moons, and they still hit like tanks if Surge is up. The major difference is their health from what I can tell.

I like solution one, solution two sounds like it would make raiding DLs or Supernals literally impossible.

I agree. Solution #1 is the better option, but I would note that "impossible" is quite a fitting word for Ethereal Glomdoring and Serenwilde in Liveforest/Surge. Bear in mind because the archways changed, the Avatars just got -more- Daughters/Ladies guarding them.

True, I just think passive stun and getting knocked out of the room would make it insanely difficult, if not impossible.

I vote for 'remove ripple, flux, surge, liveforest' and replace it with a discretionary power that delays the use of cubix/aetherbubble artifact thingies/pyramids and forms of magical/mystical travel like teleport, tesseract, moonbeam, demesne travel etc.

This isn't probable. Sorry.

Waning crescent is the phase just before New Moon, meaning one of their stronger times. Waxing/waning gibbous is their weaker, waxing/waning crescent is stronger, with weakest on full, strongest on new moon. I don't know where you're getting these stats, but I know when Seren's raided (and not with a huge group), we only really had trouble with daughters near/on the new moon.

See, this is where it'd be nice to see things like Surge's formula. If it doesn't have the effect Narsrim is making it out to be, then I don't support either change. If it does, then solution 1 is demanded.

I like solution 1.

No, it wouldn't. The Mage discretionary power covers the whole plane. You are proposing that the Druid equivalent only cover 6 rooms. How is that "in line" again?

That way liveforest wouldn't hit during an avatar raid like flux doesn't hit during a DL/Supernal raid.

I am aware of that, it doesn't change the fact the power hits > 50 rooms compared to < 10.

I'm fine with making Flux only apply to the Grotto/Citadels if you want. There is nothing worth protecting outside of them.

The balance concern that Liveforest should not effect Avatar raids if flux does not effect Cosmic raids is more important than the balance concern that Liveforest would effect less rooms that flux.

What I want to know is, however, whether or not Surge is equal to Ripple.

Celest has easily slain all five Demon Lords in Ripple with a group of 20 people. On multiple occasions. I'd say they are fairly equal given that Ladies/Daughters defend the Avatars and as Sojiro noted (and agree with my assertion) can mow down an army by themselves.

That's fine then. It just looked like a "we will nerf liveforest and keep Flux strong still" solution.

I have updated solution #1 to include this.

That's more agreeable to me.

How about we limit the number of discretionary powers that can be active at once.