This isn't the first time that Celest has been an underdog. Happens to everyone. Glomdoring has been beaten into the dirt pretty much since birth. I can sympathize with the sentiment that I'm getting from some Celestians, though. If events are stacked to basically keep pummeling Celest with minimal (if even that) rewards, where is the fun? I'm not saying that that is the case, but that seems to be the opinion put up by a few.

Clearly what's needed is a Celest summit!

Yup, and I think there should be a limit on the rapage. Government bailout please.

I feel like I've read this all before. Somewhere.

Feel free to start another thread and make suggestions if you think there is an imbalance. I do note that I have received not a few emails, forum IM's and in-game messages from people from differing organizations who complimented us on the event and did enjoy it.

And, of course, you're right that people who hysterically rant about me or the admin, blaming us for all the world's woes do not exactly engender sympathy or interest in whatever the plight is. It's as if some people believe, well, if I really "tell them like it is", we'll suddenly see the light and snap to attention when, in fact, it does nothing but get people defensive and hostile.

I recently saw a movie called "Heckler" and I completely empathized with those performers and comedians who were heckled on stage. Then, it suddenly clicked that this was exactly how I sometimes felt on these forums, and it dawned on me that some people were just heckling us in order to get a rise or reaction. (And, yes, sometimes I fell for it.) So, anyway, I'm taking a more philosophic stance these days to posts that are, well, extremely emotional and combative.

Also it's not just a few people rating. A lot of people have rage QQ'd and I'm playing with them in other games. The novices that are weighing in frankly don't know what the hell is going on to be assessing the damage.

To use a Furien-like analogy: it's like someone who's starts work at Citi after college. Are they qualified to assess how bad the recession has hit Citi? Probably not.

please make -no- mistake of the fact that Glomdoring has been on the receiving end of all this. For a long time. Just because we are doing better these past three weeks than we have the past 2 years doesn't mean much, and we above any other org know the ebb and flow of this time period. We are painfully aware that it can shift out of our favor at the drop of a hat...but we never really cried while getting our asses handed to us every day for months on end, and we won't when it happens again

I don't mind being on the receiving end. In fact, Celest and Magnagora only raided Glomdoring during that event. I may have jokingly said raid Seren, but I actually thrived off Avatar raids 3 times in that one day. It's all about outlook and perspective. Some people haven't had the chance to experience the low end. Some people's idea of the low end really isn't low. Things will change, they always do.

The star hasn't dropped the the supernals have only fallen once. I think people are making Celest's situation seem worse than it actually is at this point

I think it's fair to say that everyone should enjoy the game, right? That's the function of the game. I also understand that Nadjia can tolerate it and Krellan too, but everybody is different. There should be a baseline for griefage and conversely the enjoyment from not being grief'd. That standard should probably not be set as high as yours. I'm not saying I know what the right amount is, but if Celest is in a depression as it is now, it'll only get worse without a serious stimulus (Shuyin-type package). That stimulus can't happen if nobody wants to join/play in Celest because they're zerg'd to death and nobody is on or willing to help as the case is now.

It's also probably not worth it to dig through the forums for evidence of every org complaining, but I'm sure it's there. If the limit of griefage is put in place, I would hypothesize that there would be more active participation in these events from all sides, including the losing one. Wouldn't that be more fun for everybody if more people participated?

I mean, did you have fun destroying our constructs while nobody on the other side tried to resist? You might as well play a single-player game then.

I never said I knew where the limit should be, but I still feel like we should explore where the line should be drawn, no?

The star can't drop, as you guys can't use Luciphage (enemies can't do quests, right?). The hai'Gloh Zemordia thing is your equivalent, and it was most certainly successful. 25k power gone, boom, from each city, plus lack of discretionaries and whatever while it was up.

To be fair, a 30 day limit to destroying constructs is a limit on griefing. I do acknowledge that it may also be seen as more grief and am not against changing this.

Also, Supernal invincibility time is a limit.

Avechna is a limit.

There are serious limits currently in place. Most of us have just been pampered for far too long.

That much power loss in the span of an hour is kinda ridiculous. Just imagine little Timmy Nooblet diligently doing power quests for the better part of his evening, only to learn that his efforts were made moot literally a thousand times over by unfortunate timing. I honestly feel like some mitigation of the cost of failure is in order, since it seems so disproportionate to anything else in Lusty.

Since when have there been "lines"?

EDIT: Isn't power loss/gain associated with constructs based on how long they were up? And weren't the Celestian constucts up for a very long time? Or does that only affect upkeep cost...

I'll be honest. If a line should be in place, I don't believe Celest is anywhere near that line.

I could feed you back the same lines Celest said to me and others of Magnagora when Magnagora was on the bottom, and was far worse off than Celest is now. I'm talking prime raids and Necromentate dropping twice within a relatively short period of times. Demon Lords dead over and over and over. It's interesting, because I can hear myself now in the responses to Magnagora's issues. "You don't have it bad, back in my day..." I think people are joining a game based around conflict, and are getting too used to being pampered, then are jolted back into reality when conflict involves more than victory . Celest is in a state of shock. You guys are used to kicking in Mags teeth with Serenwilde and there wasn't a word whispered on these forums or anywhere about a line or needing to back down.

I don't mean to say you are bias or what not, simply naively trying to fix what is not broken. I just think there is a ridiculous over reaction to the current situation, and a lot of it is being fed by Narsrim who is notorious for drama queening over things like this.

If a line needed to be drawn, it should have been drawn a long long time ago. Now, it's simply a moot point. There is no line and there will never be.

edit: It sucks, I know it sucks. I have been there when it sucked far harder than it sucks for Celest, and I bitched about it, and feel for you when you bitch about it. The difference is that I bitched about the butt buddy alliance that I really hope glom and seren don't develop where you can' t turn around and spit on one side without the other crawling out of the wood work. As Krellan pointed out, there are limits coded in place, and they are pretty significant. If you hit rock bottom, then there will probably be a cease fire like Celest called on Mag, but that's about as much of a line as you'll get.

there was a thread very close to this one a few months ago when the Night Altar was destroyed for the second time, Celest and Serenwilde were having three our four field days with Glomdoring's avatars, and it was highly oppressive to everyone in Glodmoring with being kicked like a red headed stepchild every day, from novices to demi.

Someone pretty much said the exact same thing you just said above.

The retort from Celest and Serenwilde was "This is a conflict based game. Conflict happens" and that was it.


end of story

You could argue the 30 day timer on constructs either way of course, but that's not my issue. My issue is the fact I walk into the game and go oh, great another piece of crap hit the fan again today. Maybe you enjoyed the crap piling up on your ceiling, but after awhile I make a logical conclusion that I can spend my time enjoying another game where there isn't crap piling on the ceiling. This is what is happening with a good chunk of Celest's playerbase. They've made a logical conclusion that they can spend their time enjoying another game and having fun. It's a crazy concept, I know! If you're driving away players, then you're defeating the purpose of your game, right?

Yes, there will always be sensitive people to this, so I don't have an easy answer on what constitutes too much. But it doesn't hurt to examine the issue and possibly come up with one.

I wasn't on the forums then and I'm not knowledgable enough on the subject to discuss it. However, I think this is more evidence to support my claim as it is the same for every org. Some people prefer to argue illogical points to maintain their grip on power - it's the same for when PK abilities are being balanced.

If it makes you feel better, Mag is my next target.

Quite the contrary, actually. Magnagorans could be quoted saying almost exactly what you are saying, and Celest players could be quoting saying what we are saying (some were less uh...civil). Magnagora was, and this can't really be debated, worse off than Celest is now. Same goes for Glom. Lo and behold, Glom is peaking, and Magnagora is recovering slowly but surely. The "it drives players off" argument is not an accurate one, as it drives off wusses and people who just want things to be rainbows and sunshine.

This is the first time I've seen things fully cycle since playing. I can now tell you from experience that Celest will recover.