If there are 5 saplings and someone cuts one, then you only need to replant 1. If you wait until they are 3 Matures and they cut one down, you have to replant two saplings (and let them grow up to be matures before the rest will move on). If you wait until it is 1 enormous and cut it down, they have to replant all 5 saplings.

But, in all cases, you had to plant 5 saplings to begin with...

Yes, I know how it works, I just know that normally he was only able to get a sapling. It's hard for most people to get more than one because of scent, flow (moonbeam for Seren), and all the other little defensive goodies that mean quick response times. I know for a fact that some people scent obsessively.

Then he was doing it wrong. You don't bother going for the saplings.

Take out the enormous trees and make them start all over. Takes less of your time and lots of theirs.

Especially if you're an Axelord or a Druid with mulch, it's easy.

I'll keep that in my mind later.

If you didn't already have that in mind, you didn't really know how it worked.

I did that anyway, so yes, I did.

Just seemed more fun to quote you on it, Xentoast.

Totems do not require any major upkeep. I'm sorry, but how could anyone possibly argue they do when you consider that once carved, they last for 12 days whereas to get the amount of power generated by totems, Celest/Magnagora would literally have to be hunting Water/Earth 24/7.

Totems are clearly superior. Likewise, cities cannot hijack totems and gain power. Communes, however, can hunt elemental and gain power.

How much power does Serenwilde get from totems, and how much power is given per totem?

10p per Totem per RL day. Seren has more forest-rooms than Glom does so they get a bit more than we do.

Saplings: 1
Mature: 2 each
Enormous: 5
Elders: 8
Totems: 10

Since Serenwilde's so large, if all our totems are carved (which they rarely are), it's a flat 3000 power.

Let's look at it like this:

If Serenwilde gets 3000 power flat from totems, it has 300 totems. This mean every 12 days, 300 actions must be completed to carve each totem for 36,000 power. This means that every time someone carves a totem, they are generating 120p over the next 12 days.

Now... how many actions must be performed by a Celestian to kill a starsucker/leech to generate an equivalent amount of power over the same period of time? I cannot believe people in this thread have honestly tried to argue totems require a similar amount of work for their passive gain compared to constantly having to hunt earth/water.

And considering that 36k power comes from powerstones? (Unless they're idiots.)

Nerf.

It's only 36,000 (for Serenwilde) because they aren't constantly being harvested. I still remember how difficult it was to get ANY rooms totemed up in Glomdoring at all when we were starting out. They were always deadified. We ended up having to put a huge pile of guards at each room in out-of-the-way locations while they grew.

This is true for a Commune starting off, but it doesn't really apply now. It's therefore rather insubstantial and irrelevant. If I walked through Glomdoring right now, I'd be lucky to find a single uncarved totem.

This is starting to sound like a demense vs warrior combat debate. which is just silly.

You could always start raiding serenwilde everyday and chopping down the reverted totems and see how they manage.

While it's completely impractical to keep any room totemed, EVER, if someone catches it untotemed (via dreamweaving or just wandering around at 10AM when everyone's asleep) and feels like being annoying for like 20 seconds every few days, I'm not sure encouraging that is really where we want to be in terms of balance.

Totems require a low level of constant maintenance, with intermittent times when there's more work to do. Replacing totems -is- a pain, but it's not a frequent one. There just aren't many tree-raids. Like other design aspects in the communes, when things are built up, they're pretty solid - but once they're knocked down, the recovery is arduous and time consuming. It's the same on etherglom/wilde.

As far as getting the sands goes, while this is unreliable, it's by no means improbable to get three or four, particularly now that the communes are not really trying given we're somewhat cut off from the elemental planes. Also, there are ten total, not nine.

Cities have better means of active power-gain, I don't think anyone would dispute this. Not only your respawning essence and empowering imps and the like, but also the direct connection to astral, and (for mag) recuperation from insanity which lets you cone more often and for longer.

All that said - I have no particular issues with upping the cities' passive gain -a bit-. It doesn't seem entirely fair to say the numbers come out even, when one side has a lot to do, and the other doesn't have to do as much to meet the same amount of gain in the end. I just wouldn't like to see Serenwilde's totem numbers used as a reference point for what you are entitled to, given the advantages you have elsewhere.

lets not forget that when you hunt earth, empower imps, or do just about any form of active power gain you get xp, karma and gold. While Totems are purely power maintenance with no other side benefits.

Clearly what we need is for Serenwilde to lose some forest rooms. When the next Soulless stops by, can Serenwilde get some zombie centaurs and wasteland rooms? That'd be cool.

EDIT:


I think it should go the other way, if anything. Reduce the communes' passive power intake. Power is already a non-commodity.