It's all the same animal. You have extreme weapon stats that inherently interact with the character stats, resulting in "issues". You can't alter one without changing the other- which is exactly what the changes being discussed did! After that set of changes, the desirable/optimal forging stats changed to reflect it.

It's a gordian knot. It sucks, but leaving it alone sucks more. I'm no coder, but it would, from a player's perspective, be much simpler if all weapons operated on easy to grasp base statistics, and the pertient warrior forumlas were adjusted accordingly.

So, I forge a sword. Any sword, any type, make them all the same. Fast greatsword, precice claymore, whatever. I set the stats how I want them, within the specified range. The sword is just a cosmetic choice. The warrior forumlas are based around the known and controlled ranges, as opposed to having to constantly account for gross statistical outliers that are spawned of randomness. Thus, forging is fixed, and warriors are a heck of a lot easier to balance.

This would help, but it would never solve the problem. A big part of the animal is having to balance the whole archetype around a weapon created as a gross statistical outlier of a random number generator.

If this were easier to do than a complete revamp, I'd be happy with just raising the effectiveness of non-demi/no-arti warriors without raising the effectiveness of the top level.

That's where the proposal started but somehow we took a left turn and dropped off a cliff!

This is way too much for someone who just woke up to take in.

-I'm fine with either leaving the old caps (180/235/280) or just making everything a nice rounded number like 180. What I want to know is if say, speed was changed to only be max 180, would it function the same mechanically as the "old" speed of 280?

-Being able to temper weapons for the positive is awesome. Please put this in right now. 2 steel is a bit pricey, can we just do it for power/reserves alternatively as well?

-I'm not convinced that weapon totals can only add up to 463 max, depending on how you do things, this might shaft non-demigod/artied warriors.

-I don't think monks should be given what amounts to better armour overall in the end. That'd just make them crazy tanks given their 'base' races.

-Likewise, I'm rather fond of masterarmour, so if you do decide to mess with this, can we also get it adjusted/changed via messages if needed?

-At this point, we should probably just get rid of the combatstyle system, heh, too much headache and seems to break/imbalance often. We should just concentrate on making weapon stats matter more. Like Isuka said, each 'type' of weapon should just tend to have stats that reflect its nature. Rapiers will have low damage, medium prec, high speed, broadswords will have high damage, low prec, medium speed, scimitars will have medium damage, high prec, low speed. Something like that, blah blah everyone can pitch in. High = near/always max cap, medium = median stats, low = near/always minimum cap. We can just adjust accordingly from there.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Can you explain more about how to raise the "bottom"?

The only issue I see is that I don't think mortal/non-arties should be as effective as an Artied Demi.

I think that's a given.

No, they shouldn't. But they could do with being slightly more effective than they are at present.

It would be nice if the difference between a demi knight and a mortal knight was the same as the difference between say, a demi guardian and a mortal guardian.

But the way it looks right now with the changes you said, it looks like it would be nearly impossible for non-artied/non-demi warriors to be of any use at all. Heck, I know Melville and I have already started talking about changing guilds again.

Since I'm not a coder or knowledgeable in your code I can't.. quite say how to raise the lower end. It's just like Chade sees it as well, precision would have to mean a little bit more so that Mr. Level80 can do more with his swing than he does now but not so much that Mr. Demigod can knock someones head off in one go.

Yup. But at present, I'd say non-artie/non-demi warriors have a much harder time in 1v1 combat than equivalent might/level guardians, wiccans, mages and monks.

Oh right, I wouldn't be bothered either if weapon type was completely divorced from actual weapon stats. It'd probably be a less pain overall and it would throw in a bit more of that lovable RP into being a warrior.

But really, if you're going to implement something immediately, just put in being able to temper into the positive.

I'm.. not sure how you can go about comparing Guardian to Warrior. At all. Guardian is an affliction based class and that is all. Warriors are Damage/Wounds/Afflictions/Poisons/etc.

Lower the effect str has and increase the effect precision has until you reach a point where current Demi's are doing the same as they were before. As a level 80 I still have access to eqivalent prec weapons so if prec meant more, I'd be doing slightly more than I was previously whilst you do the same.

The advent of TrueShield has also shafted non-demi/non-artie Knights pretty badly, so maybe a reduction in how effective it is would help.

I'm not. But demigod is arguably a requirement to be effective as a knight. It is not as a guardian. In a broad sense, that is retarded. A demi guardian has advantages over a nondemi guardian in terms of health, regen, and all that jazz. Their afflictions aren't made so much better that the archetype has to be balanced around them to the extent that the nondemi can't even compete.

I'm fairly sure trueshield affected every warrior equally.

Yeah, but due to the nature of Demi, nothing much which can be done really.

On a separate note: Adding the ability to positivly temper stats in the interim would be great, means I could get my weapons so much faster