Tervic2009-06-06 21:23:21
QUOTE (Tandrin @ Jun 6 2009, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As someone who was a forger without a hammer for years and hated the process, I think there are some good ideas here. Here are my thoughts as well as some other suggestions.
- I love the idea of tempering to adjust a weapon. It makes much more sense than being stuck with the result of the totally random process.
- To address the smelting and reforging issue, why not have an option where you could do something to the blade that would return it to its default and then reforge it rather than smelt and start from scratch. Essentially it would be refining the blade by heating it to its first state. It would allow designs that aren't allmetal to be viable.
- On the miss rate issue, I always hated warriors and missing. I think it would make more sense if there was an adjustment where the strength of the blow could vary instead of a miss. It would be a straight percentage of damage done. Rather than a miss, a weapon could do a light hit (which would be 50% of normal damage). This could really come into play when dealing with the problem with speed and precision. Essentially make an adjustment here rather than in stats themselves since it seems stat adjustments wreak havoc on racial balance and balance in general.
- I love the idea of an armour option for monks. I personally hate robes and think monks should have another choice that is comparable. However, the new option should mirror robes in terms of strength. Any other decision would make monks more imbalanced. The simplest suggestion I have is to remove batting from tailoring and introduce a new skill to forging that would allow leather armour to be hardened to match robes. I guess the main issue I see her is the loss of splendour robes for some monks. Having never had splendour robes, I can't weigh on whether or not it is unfair.
- I agree that forging should stay with warriors. I will be the first person to say that monks need some help in terms of tradeskill selection, but I am not sure that access to forging is a great solution. As annoying and difficult as it is, monks may just need a new tradeskill (kind of like what happened for guardians-wicci/bards).
- I love the idea of tempering to adjust a weapon. It makes much more sense than being stuck with the result of the totally random process.
- To address the smelting and reforging issue, why not have an option where you could do something to the blade that would return it to its default and then reforge it rather than smelt and start from scratch. Essentially it would be refining the blade by heating it to its first state. It would allow designs that aren't allmetal to be viable.
- On the miss rate issue, I always hated warriors and missing. I think it would make more sense if there was an adjustment where the strength of the blow could vary instead of a miss. It would be a straight percentage of damage done. Rather than a miss, a weapon could do a light hit (which would be 50% of normal damage). This could really come into play when dealing with the problem with speed and precision. Essentially make an adjustment here rather than in stats themselves since it seems stat adjustments wreak havoc on racial balance and balance in general.
- I love the idea of an armour option for monks. I personally hate robes and think monks should have another choice that is comparable. However, the new option should mirror robes in terms of strength. Any other decision would make monks more imbalanced. The simplest suggestion I have is to remove batting from tailoring and introduce a new skill to forging that would allow leather armour to be hardened to match robes. I guess the main issue I see her is the loss of splendour robes for some monks. Having never had splendour robes, I can't weigh on whether or not it is unfair.
- I agree that forging should stay with warriors. I will be the first person to say that monks need some help in terms of tradeskill selection, but I am not sure that access to forging is a great solution. As annoying and difficult as it is, monks may just need a new tradeskill (kind of like what happened for guardians-wicci/bards).
Mm, your smelting change sounds really good too. Would it basically remove all refinement from a weapon, and revert to the 'Behold! The shapeless mass is now a weapon!' point? If so, that's probably a viable way to work it, but I still think that dismantle is better.
A light hit would be far preferable to a miss (assuming that it can still deliver afflictions/poisons), but it still doesn't adress the RNG mess that is the warrior archetype. The point that most warriors are making is that theirs is really the only class that is utterly dependent on the whims of the random number gods, from weapons to whether or not they hit, to what afflictions are doled out when.
Monks have plenty of tradeskills available to them. So they can't take forging, alchemy or enchantment. There are still seven tradeskills available to them. The most any guild has available is nine, and that's only because bards can go for either Alchemy (requiring lowmagic) or enchanting (requiring highmagic), so given the high/lowmagic restriction, the most options any given player can have is eight.
Shaddus2009-06-06 21:32:04
I'm sorry, but tl;dr.
Will this do anything to monk weapons?
Will this do anything to monk weapons?
Rika2009-06-06 21:40:49
Haven't really anything but the OP. Not really sure what to think about all of the rest of it, but one point stands out to me.
Monks don't need to be upgraded defensively.
Monks don't need to be upgraded defensively.
Tandrin2009-06-06 22:25:28
QUOTE (Tervic @ Jun 6 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Monks have plenty of tradeskills available to them. So they can't take forging, alchemy or enchantment. There are still seven tradeskills available to them. The most any guild has available is nine, and that's only because bards can go for either Alchemy (requiring lowmagic) or enchanting (requiring highmagic), so given the high/lowmagic restriction, the most options any given player can have is eight.
While that might be true, I believe monks are now the only class that lacks any class specific trade skills bonus. I am not saying the monks need any sort of combat bonus, but I believe a class specific tradeskill would be a good change with a utility bonus at transcedent such as that for artisan.
Shaddus2009-06-06 22:34:48
QUOTE (Tandrin @ Jun 6 2009, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While that might be true, I believe monks are now the only class that lacks any class specific trade skills bonus. I am not saying the monks need any sort of combat bonus, but I believe a class specific tradeskill would be a good change with a utility bonus at transcedent such as that for artisan.
Lolwut? Prized isn't THAT much of a bonus, and I'm actually trying to have it upgraded if my guild envoy were actually active.
Casilu2009-06-06 22:39:07
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Jun 6 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lolwut? Prized isn't THAT much of a bonus, and I'm actually trying to have it upgraded if my guild envoy were actually active.
Report 201?
Gero2009-06-06 23:00:22
Can I have a refund on my mallet and forging skill please?
Edit:
A huge problem most of the player base has is that we have to use all metal designs for the to be of any real use, unless your Richter and and just afford to pay for all those non-metal comms for ten thousand reforgings.
Slower speed to bypass/destroy parrying/stancing sounds nice, but honestly speed wins over it. Warriors already have a hard time keeping people wounded and damaged (Non-demi/titan ones). We don't really want to give people more time without being hit to cure up.
Precision is utterly and completely useless. I don't know who decided that precision should suck, but that person made a horrible decision. Make precision do some decent wounds if you're going to have it there, and give it extra chance to get an affliction or two! Damage is not that great either it needs a boost. There is a reason you don't see anything but speed weapons any more. Give precision more wounding power, and give damage more hurting power. That will bring up a bigger variety of weapons.
Edit:
A huge problem most of the player base has is that we have to use all metal designs for the to be of any real use, unless your Richter and and just afford to pay for all those non-metal comms for ten thousand reforgings.
Slower speed to bypass/destroy parrying/stancing sounds nice, but honestly speed wins over it. Warriors already have a hard time keeping people wounded and damaged (Non-demi/titan ones). We don't really want to give people more time without being hit to cure up.
Precision is utterly and completely useless. I don't know who decided that precision should suck, but that person made a horrible decision. Make precision do some decent wounds if you're going to have it there, and give it extra chance to get an affliction or two! Damage is not that great either it needs a boost. There is a reason you don't see anything but speed weapons any more. Give precision more wounding power, and give damage more hurting power. That will bring up a bigger variety of weapons.
Zallafar2009-06-07 00:01:58
It seems like linking stat emphasis to weapon type adds another dimension to combat. If I know that greatswords are high damage weapons, katana high speed, and rapiers high precision (or whichever; I'm a bard and don't use these things) then if I see I'm being attacked with a greatsword I can change my defense tactics. Maybe give more priority to drinking health than applying it.
Gero2009-06-07 00:31:27
QUOTE (Zallafar @ Jun 6 2009, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems like linking stat emphasis to weapon type adds another dimension to combat. If I know that greatswords are high damage weapons, katana high speed, and rapiers high precision (or whichever; I'm a bard and don't use these things) then if I see I'm being attacked with a greatsword I can change my defense tactics. Maybe give more priority to drinking health than applying it.
It does, however with the current way stats are setup, the use of anything but speed weapons is pointless.
Casilu2009-06-07 01:12:22
Unknown2009-06-07 01:42:54
God it pains me to know this thread even exists because I know there will be great Ideas and the Admins will just laugh and give us crap of a change that said here are my ideas.
1. Make weapon stats matter.
2. Make all stats on weapons static.
3. Make sure the stats on the different kinds of weapons are varried.
4. Make people wearing field plate/ full get no proofs.
5. make chainmail good and give it to guardians/wiccans. with 1 enchant. give it medium armour stats.
6. Make leather wearable by monks/bards. 2 proofs low stats.
7. Robes for all that is left, lowest stats 2 proofs double resistence to proofs.
8.Remove cloak and cape or w/e proofings.
9. Lower all around damage/wounds/bleeding from weapons
10. remove warrior stun
What this would fix.
1. Fix Keph race.
2. make warrior combat not random dependant.
3. make other armors useful.
4. Makes defending against warriors less of a your screwed or your never going to get hurt.
I know not all of this is related to forging but meh my post my ideas.
1. Make weapon stats matter.
2. Make all stats on weapons static.
3. Make sure the stats on the different kinds of weapons are varried.
4. Make people wearing field plate/ full get no proofs.
5. make chainmail good and give it to guardians/wiccans. with 1 enchant. give it medium armour stats.
6. Make leather wearable by monks/bards. 2 proofs low stats.
7. Robes for all that is left, lowest stats 2 proofs double resistence to proofs.
8.Remove cloak and cape or w/e proofings.
9. Lower all around damage/wounds/bleeding from weapons
10. remove warrior stun
What this would fix.
1. Fix Keph race.
2. make warrior combat not random dependant.
3. make other armors useful.
4. Makes defending against warriors less of a your screwed or your never going to get hurt.
I know not all of this is related to forging but meh my post my ideas.
Unknown2009-06-07 02:01:14
I think that wounding and damage need to be a bit more seperate. Maybe damage gives +to hit and -to hit for poisons, while wounding gives +to hit and +to break stance.
@Krin: I agree with making chain/leather/scale worth something, but not the rest of that.
@Krin: I agree with making chain/leather/scale worth something, but not the rest of that.
Unknown2009-06-07 02:03:27
GENIUSSTRIKE: Instead of lowering the effect of TrueShield, nerf greatrobes, and up the protection on leather. And remove Deflect. Monks will then be armour-ly equivalent to robies (with their shields).
Gero2009-06-07 02:03:47
QUOTE (Greleag @ Jun 6 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think that wounding and damage need to be a bit more seperate. Maybe damage gives +to hit and -to hit for poisons, while wounding gives +to hit and +to break stance.
@Krin: I agree with making chain/leather/scale worth something, but not the rest of that.
@Krin: I agree with making chain/leather/scale worth something, but not the rest of that.
Don't mess with poison it's already a pain to get some of them to even hit.
Gero2009-06-07 02:08:32
QUOTE (krin1 @ Jun 6 2009, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
God it pains me to know this thread even exists because I know there will be great Ideas and the Admins will just laugh and give us crap of a change that said here are my ideas.
1. Make weapon stats matter.
2. Make all stats on weapons static.
3. Make sure the stats on the different kinds of weapons are varried.
4. Make people wearing field plate/ full get no proofs.
5. make chainmail good and give it to guardians/wiccans. with 1 enchant. give it medium armour stats.
6. Make leather wearable by monks/bards. 2 proofs low stats.
7. Robes for all that is left, lowest stats 2 proofs double resistence to proofs.
8.Remove cloak and cape or w/e proofings.
9. Lower all around damage/wounds/bleeding from weapons
10. remove warrior stun
What this would fix.
1. Fix Keph race.
2. make warrior combat not random dependant.
3. make other armors useful.
4. Makes defending against warriors less of a your screwed or your never going to get hurt.
I know not all of this is related to forging but meh my post my ideas.
1. Make weapon stats matter.
2. Make all stats on weapons static.
3. Make sure the stats on the different kinds of weapons are varried.
4. Make people wearing field plate/ full get no proofs.
5. make chainmail good and give it to guardians/wiccans. with 1 enchant. give it medium armour stats.
6. Make leather wearable by monks/bards. 2 proofs low stats.
7. Robes for all that is left, lowest stats 2 proofs double resistence to proofs.
8.Remove cloak and cape or w/e proofings.
9. Lower all around damage/wounds/bleeding from weapons
10. remove warrior stun
What this would fix.
1. Fix Keph race.
2. make warrior combat not random dependant.
3. make other armors useful.
4. Makes defending against warriors less of a your screwed or your never going to get hurt.
I know not all of this is related to forging but meh my post my ideas.
Lowering damage/wounding, isn't what needs to be done to fix stats. It needs to be raised so it matters if you have precision or damage. Your other parts are alright. I think we should just do away with all those useless catigories of equipment like, polearms. I've never forged one, and only seen one person want one.
Zalandrus2009-06-07 02:33:12
Let me interject with one point (sorry if this has been said already): kephera can't wear leather armor, and they're the specializing race for half of the monk guilds. So, if you make the trans skill in forging have something to do with leather armor, no kephera can benefit from it. Just emphasizing that...
Shiri2009-06-07 02:34:19
Monks wearing robes is fine. Stop trying to make them even more similar to warriors! Stooooop iiiit!
Rodngar2009-06-07 03:28:15
If you are looking to make speed 'less valuable', it's a very difficult question to answer. Have you considered making precision 'mean more' if it's proportionately higher than damage and/or speed? It would make precision-based weapons (scimitars, etc) have a purpose of being much more effective assuming they had an added benefit if they met certain requirements.
Tervic2009-06-07 04:01:19
QUOTE (Zalandrus Meyedsun @ Jun 6 2009, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Let me interject with one point (sorry if this has been said already): kephera can't wear leather armor, and they're the specializing race for half of the monk guilds. So, if you make the trans skill in forging have something to do with leather armor, no kephera can benefit from it. Just emphasizing that...
They have innate lv3 resist damage for a reason. When kephera were released, I was shocked that they were allowed to wear robes.
Jigan2009-06-07 04:01:33
All weapons start off at X/Y/Z
A smith has S amount of swings (possibly dependant on his skill level) to affect the weapon.
Each swing adds so much to a certain stat. Depending on the skill of the smith, this might knock a few points off, or might give the points to another stat, or give an additional few points.
When it's done, it's done.
Forging Mallet gives you so many more swings, or a reduces the mishap chances.
You can even throw in a durability factor to give smiths the reason to fix blades. I can finally have a freaking axe that uses furrikini shoulder blades, and keep the damn thing without going through the entire population of Estelbar, compounded since the start of the game, and when it's almost decayed, I can have it repaired and give it to the grandkids.
As in
FORGE SWORD 3928
FORGE FOR PRECISION
FORGE FOR SPEED
FORGE FOR DAMAGE
And add in a new emote: Rememberforging
Gero gives the air above him a blank look before screaming in agony and whimpering for a few moments before shutting his eyes and shuddering a moment. (I am aware I'm repetitive. That's why I don't do much designing and writing it down for public use right away.)
(Balance, Lightness, and Sharpness/Bluntess/Whatever in game terms)
A smith has S amount of swings (possibly dependant on his skill level) to affect the weapon.
Each swing adds so much to a certain stat. Depending on the skill of the smith, this might knock a few points off, or might give the points to another stat, or give an additional few points.
When it's done, it's done.
Forging Mallet gives you so many more swings, or a reduces the mishap chances.
You can even throw in a durability factor to give smiths the reason to fix blades. I can finally have a freaking axe that uses furrikini shoulder blades, and keep the damn thing without going through the entire population of Estelbar, compounded since the start of the game, and when it's almost decayed, I can have it repaired and give it to the grandkids.
As in
FORGE SWORD 3928
FORGE FOR PRECISION
FORGE FOR SPEED
FORGE FOR DAMAGE
And add in a new emote: Rememberforging
Gero gives the air above him a blank look before screaming in agony and whimpering for a few moments before shutting his eyes and shuddering a moment. (I am aware I'm repetitive. That's why I don't do much designing and writing it down for public use right away.)
(Balance, Lightness, and Sharpness/Bluntess/Whatever in game terms)
