Forging Change

by Ilyarin

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2009-06-15 05:14:25
QUOTE (casilu @ Jun 15 2009, 06:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One-handed kata weapons are easy( took me about a day for two 110 speed nekai), two-handers may still need a boost to help, but still.


Having forged near upwards of a dozen pairs of 110 kata weapons by now, I can safely say that your day figure is fairly lucky.

It usually takes me a couple of days for one 110 weapon, w/mallet. Maybe a day and a half per one, overall. I've gotten extremely lucky and forged a pair of them in a few hours, and one of Asmodea's shofa took me about a week, so results vary of course.

The shield thing for me is more about consistency than anything mechanical.
Casilu2009-06-15 05:23:27
It's weird because I'm normally an unlucky person.
Unknown2009-06-15 05:32:05
There's just no pleasing people heh.

Shields don't really need this boost, getting a 40/40 shield is pretty easy.

Kata weapons have already been covered, they may or may not be adjusted, but eitherway, the range of effectiveness for those weapons means that you need to tread a bit more carefully here, as Desitrus said.
Tekora2009-06-15 05:35:11
QUOTE (Desitrus @ Jun 15 2009, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All classes were discussed and all ramifications discussed. Monks were left out because the multiplier effect of a 108 vs 110 and 218 vs 220 is something in a formula that Roark wanted to look at specifically, thus leaving easily obtained "killer" weapons out. You could also forge a 510 combined stat one-hander for warriors before, but 480 is where that cap was adjusted. On that note, Kata people came out ahead of knight people. I knew this would happen. Zomg. Double zomg. Triple zomg.

Shields weren't put in because the effect of a "super" shield is barely noticeable. You could take a once-off shield most of the time and your character would barely see any difference. Let me get this straight. They trusted Desitrus, who has played *Every single archetype in the game* at top tier, to make a decision?! He didn't consult any other classes or players as well. I knew this would happen. Knew it. Similarly, no amount of time is necessary when a shielding rune is purchased, unlike knight-weapon runes which still have to be slapped onto perfect weapons.

Shazam, back to the batcave!


In your rush to defend your E-Honor, you seem to have missed my grievance completely. I'm not complaining about the changes that were made, they're fine. I'm complaining about the changes that WEREN'T made.

Thus, my concerns lie within two major areas. The first is the fact that as a former Guardian who opted for Chain Armor, and a former Bard who opted for Leather, it would have been nice to see those subsets of the Forging skill get some attention paid to them.

The second was my concern that Monks are the only class whom are required to depend on another person to create the item that allows them to utilize their primary guild skill. Thus, it would have been nice to see Monks gain Forging as a Tradeskill, like Estarra had mentioned in the first discussion thread.

But I guess the general elitism in your post comes from the fact that I'm not a top-tier fighter, ergo my point of view doesn't count. Ain't it always the way?

QUOTE (casilu @ Jun 15 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What exactly do guardian, bards, and mages need, anyway? Quicker shield forging? I forged a decent shield in an hour, maybe two.

One-handed kata weapons are easy( took me about a day for two 110 speed nekai), two-handers may still need a boost to help, but still.

Forging those things is not comparable to forging warrior equipment. My plate took me a week, my axe took me a week. There really isn't a need to buff those, they do not need it to the same extent that warrior equipment needed it.


Chain/Leather Armor need love, dear Casilu. As for kata weapons, it's not the making of them, but WHO can make them, that needs changing.
Enero2009-06-15 05:36:39
Woo! Mad props to Desipus and the Admin Dream Team... jumpfire.gif cheer.gif jumpfire.gif

Now I don't feel as bad about acidentally smelting a 90/90 plate yesterday smile.gif
Since I can't log on to check myself...
1) You don't need steel to temper down, right?
2) While Mallets are owneronly, I can still get somone with Mallet to temper my weapons, yes?

Cheers!
Unknown2009-06-15 05:39:03
1 and 2: Yes
Casilu2009-06-15 05:41:42
QUOTE (Tekora @ Jun 14 2009, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Chain/Leather Armor need love, dear Casilu. As for kata weapons, it's not the making of them, but WHO can make them, that needs changing.



Just wear robes, problem solved. That's sort of why they exist.

Give monks an origami tradeskill, then they can make little paper weapons. suspicious.gif
Desitrus2009-06-15 05:42:44
QUOTE (Tekora @ Jun 15 2009, 12:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In your rush to defend your E-Honor, you seem to have missed my grievance completely. I'm not complaining about the changes that were made, they're fine. I'm complaining about the changes that WEREN'T made.

Thus, my concerns lie within two major areas. The first is the fact that as a former Guardian who opted for Chain Armor, and a former Bard who opted for Leather, it would have been nice to see those subsets of the Forging skill get some attention paid to them.

The second was my concern that Monks are the only class whom are required to depend on another person to create the item that allows them to utilize their primary guild skill. Thus, it would have been nice to see Monks gain Forging as a Tradeskill, like Estarra had mentioned in the first discussion thread.

But I guess the general elitism in your post comes from the fact that I'm not a top-tier fighter, ergo my point of view doesn't count. Ain't it always the way?



Chain/Leather Armor need love, dear Casilu. As for kata weapons, it's not the making of them, but WHO can make them, that needs changing.


I guess in your rush to be the victim, you missed the point entirely. Monks were not touched due to a code and balance related issue. I pointed that out, and you apparently ignored it. Good game.

The game moved away from chainmail and leather. That is not my concern, nor is changing it anything to do with the "forging problem." There is not a single rant from people who forge hours upon hours that they aren't forging chainmail. Go look through all the fix forging threads. This addressed what was in them. It would be "neat" or "interesting" to have those things available, but that has nothing to do with "fixing forging."

We fixed what people bitched about. The end.

The reason for the elitism, is, as usual, someone posting some garbage about how one guy was looking out for himself on a one man committee. Just isn't the case, hombre.
Shaddus2009-06-15 05:44:40
QUOTE (Enero @ Jun 15 2009, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Woo! Mad props to Desipus and the Admin Dream Team... jumpfire.gif cheer.gif jumpfire.gif

Now I don't feel as bad about acidentally smelting a 90/90 plate yesterday smile.gif
Since I can't log on to check myself...
1) You don't need steel to temper down, right?
2) While Mallets are owneronly, I can still get somone with Mallet to temper my weapons, yes?

Cheers!

Because Sojiro's answers suck:

1: yes, you do. So if you have a (random numbers) 111/x/279 and you want a 110/x/280, you have to pay a steel to temper down the damage, and pay a steel to temper up the speed.

2: Yes, mallets are user only. So you can have someone with a mallet use it so they can use powerstones to temper your weapon, but you can't borrow the mallet to do it yourself. Also, you can no longer use the mallet for that nice boost to forging speed. sad.gif
Unknown2009-06-15 05:46:38
I meant 'yes you don't need steel to temper down'. You pay for tempering down with months.

Edit: Hup, it's currently bugged right now that if you temper down with steel comms in your inv, it takes the steel away, but you can temper down without it as intended by the AB.
Desitrus2009-06-15 05:49:18
I also hope people with mallets are charging to temper things. It's a wide market folks, DONT GIVE THE WHOLE COW AWAY FOR FREE.

Also, why the hell didn't you fix polearms and brass knuckles for miniatures Desitrus? They're in forging too. You bastard!
Shaddus2009-06-15 05:50:40
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Jun 15 2009, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I meant 'yes you don't need steel to temper down'. You pay for tempering down with months.

Edit: Hup, it's currently bugged right now that if you temper down with steel comms in your inv, it takes the steel away, but you can temper down without it as intended by the AB.

... really. That means I probably wasted 200 steel just on tempering down stats for various things. GG Sojiro.
Shaddus2009-06-15 05:51:17
QUOTE (Desitrus @ Jun 15 2009, 12:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Also, why the hell didn't you fix polearms and brass knuckles for miniatures Desitrus? They're in forging too. You bastard!

Damn skippy.
Casilu2009-06-15 05:52:05
Well, I might just trade mine in, then. ohyeah.gif
Unknown2009-06-15 05:52:09
QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Jun 14 2009, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... really. That means I probably wasted 200 steel just on tempering down stats for various things. GG Sojiro.


Shaddus2009-06-15 05:54:03
/derail

omg, is that Ilyarin in the white shirt?
Daganev2009-06-15 05:54:42
QUOTE (Desitrus @ Jun 14 2009, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is not a single rant from people who forge hours upon hours that they aren't forging chainmail.


This is only because of people being blinded by the pain of forging weapons. It doesn't mean that all of forging doesn't need to be looked at and fixed in a comprehensive change. (i.e. this is a good first step, but it doesn't meant that forging is now "fixed".)

As it is, most of the skillset is useless, and that is still a problem for people who can't completely trans the skillset.

And the question was not about monk weapons being tempered, the question was about monks getting forging so they can be self reliant.
Unknown2009-06-15 05:56:30
QUOTE (Enero @ Jun 15 2009, 06:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Woo! Mad props to Desipus and the Admin Dream Team... jumpfire.gif cheer.gif jumpfire.gif

Now I don't feel as bad about acidentally smelting a 90/90 plate yesterday smile.gif
Since I can't log on to check myself...
1) You don't need steel to temper down, right?
2) While Mallets are owneronly, I can still get somone with Mallet to temper my weapons, yes?

Cheers!



Careful here. I just malleted my reserves down to 0% from 100% without realizing it playing with a non-masterwork sword. tongue.gif

Bugged it.

Now linking to 100. They'll just have to block me, cause it's not getting replaced within the next weave, but I'm not gonna eat full reserve loss over something that asinine tongue.gif
Enero2009-06-15 06:31:36
Good thing is, hopefully I won't have to deal with any of the bugs smile.gif
Not able to log on for next two days and with the amout of people who will spend those two days in forge... all the nasty bugs should be squished biggrin.gif

Also, Forging should be given to monks under one condition. That they get deleted afterwards. Kthx!
Xiel2009-06-15 06:37:49
QUOTE (Rainydays @ Jun 14 2009, 10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Now linking to 100. They'll just have to block me, cause it's not getting replaced within the next weave, but I'm not gonna eat full reserve loss over something that asinine tongue.gif


Or...you can poke your friendly neighborhood ghey to cover you. -twiddle-

wub.gif Akak.