Tracking is an interesting and entertaining skill set in principle, however in most essential points relating to combat, it makes its user something of a three legged dog. The whole of the thing revolves around traps, and usually pits. While there are uses for darts (particularly in tree and water environments, where pits are naturally not useable), and the very rare spring trap (often as not laming someone into a supermob), there tends to be no trap related actions that aren’t best solved by the judicious use of spike, or the odd snake, pits.

These pits are often extremely useful in groups, and an effective way to set up a target for an instakill, or even just keeping them immobile while a group of people attacks a victim. Indeed, they were so effective at this role that it was found necessary to add a skill into environment to make it somewhat easier to get out of them.

I don’t have a problem with this at all- relying on one, overly powerful, usually annoying ability to make up the core of your combat isn’t particularly creative or fun. The victim usually feels cheated or lamed, and it certainly isn’t any act of great accomplishment on the part of the person using the ability. Thus, the addition of rockclimbing to Environment is probably a very good thing.

However, that doesn’t make trackers any less of a three-legged dog in combat. To take tracking, the knight gives up any and all defensive or offensive abilities that would be gained through Totems, Rituals, Stag, Moon, Crow, or Night. These include many useful tricks, many great utility abilities, a good amount of offense, in some cases weapon auras, and any of the various healing/recovery/DMP or DMP like effects that are littered through those skill sets.

In exchange, trackers essentially get one defense- camouflage (shroud in natural environments, cannot be activated if there is anyone else present in the room), the ability to find stuff, and pits. The bond (wolf/hound) is worth mentioning, but they are very easy to drop in combat (outside of the arena, of course, where they can’t be killed), and a replacement requires physically going to a kennel.

This leaves trackers with a unique, but largely useless skill set, at least in relation to the alternatives. Thus, in the spirit of remaining unique, but also in an effort to reduce the three-legged-dog-ness of tracking (without emulating the magic/spiritual skillsets), I’d like to make two suggestions.


Give trackers dodging: Remember, trackers aren’t as tough as other knights. They don’t have loads of DMP to throw up, they don’t have specialized DMPs to damage types, they can only have the one proof, on a cloak. They don’t have the hindering tricks, or fear defenses, or combat power moves that are scattered across the other skillsets. They don’t have deflection, they can’t feasibly use shields, and their knight offense is, like all knights, based on getting around stance, parry, rebounding, and the capriciousness of a RNG-wounding mechanic, as opposed to affliction on demand, or even momentum.

Dodging would give them a defense from their tertiary other than camouflage to put up. It would take some of the edge off of the ability gap between trackers and totems/rituals users. It would also make trackers have a more unique feel compared to other knights- flavor wise, they aren’t using some form of magic/spiritualism, it’s more of a physical ability- instead of the power of the moon or night taking the edge of blows, or using creepy undead powers, a tracker’s out-doorsy life has given them a heightened ability to just get the heck out of the way.



Give trackers an agility boosting defense: This is linked thematically to the above. Practically/mechanically, it does a few things that would help trackers. Most obviously, it would help out the above dodging ability- remember that many warrior races are fairly low dex to begin with, and trackers typically are notelfen, merian, viscanti, or faeling, because, of course, trackers forego the skillsets (the rituals/totems specializations) that allow these races to specialize. (Not that all of these have good dex, of course).

Since dex does matter for defenses, as well as (it seems, at least, from various people’s experimentations) the willingness of the RNG to deliver a wound affliction (as opposed to just straight out dealing wounds sans the desired affliction), this would help to make up, in a marginal way, the gap between trackers and other knights. In addition, it would mean that some of the low-dex knight races would be slightly more useable (for trackers at least), making them that much less likely to be regulated to novices and die-hards.

Ultimately, I’d like to see trackers less reliant on (mostly) one tactical ability (pits) in combat, and to have a little more going on defense and flavor wise. I feel the above addresses both these things nicely, but I would appreciate input before I try and shove anything like this down an envoy’s throat.

1. Dislike Dodging. Maybe only Dodging in various environmental areas as those abilities are gained (dodge in forest when you get TreeHunter, etc.). Alternatively, substitute 'Dodging' with 'DMP.' HOWEVER! DMP is a bit of a 'meh' when it comes the factor of interesting, and so we can further substitute 'DMP' with 'resistance to various afflictions/states of being.' For example, upon gaining TreeHunter, a Tracker gains a boost in resistance to poisons (poisons, not poison damage). MountainHunter could give a boost in resistance to being forcibly moved (be it passive or active means)... this would include things such as being pushed off trees/rooftops/flight, being tossed around by earthquakes/waves, and the ever-lovable Gust/Beckon/Chaindrag/Will-o-wisp.

2. You're only saying that cause you're Orclach.

3. BloodThirst should make the Wolf/Dog ignore Clamping, BUT! (instead of the measly damage/bleeding bonus it gives), allow it to break through shield/rebounding on its attack tic. Hot stuff.

Reading some old posts about Tracking, it seems the skill was built around traps, and the hunting companion was more flavor. Unfortunately, traps are so expensive (comm costs), some are useless because they are so easily negated, and our transcendent skill is ridiculously complicated for a one shot deal, that they are sometimes more trouble than they are worth. They are limited in functionality to the "local area", as is the bell.

I love the hunting companion, because while flavorful, it also adds a unique aspect. The bond is versatile, able to spy on others, find and deliver objects, provides a means of getting into tough places, and in combat adds a bit of danger. Unfortunately, it is very very easy to kill, which means it almost never has time to be of use in combat. It's main ability, the ability to track, is negated by skunk or by leaving the local area. In many cases, this means the target can move a dozen rooms and is then unable to be tracked.

So, my suggestions for tracking:

Traps

-Reduce the cost of Bell from 2 silver to 1. It's a tiny bell, not a church bell. When you are laying traps in an area, you shouldn't have to use more silver than is available at once in most comm shops. Plus traps are expensive enough already without adding two more precious metals to them.

-Either eliminate the need for a crystal egg for the snake net, or rewrite the AB file so that it gives you more hints on where to get an egg. "Dracnari beastmasters" tells you nothing, since the person you get the egg from is neither Dracnari nor a beastmaster. Also, he only gives out one egg at a time, so if by a miracle you figure out he gives out the eggs, you have to hope no one else got there before you.

-Increase the decay time of the net. Almost every net I've gotten has decayed before I had the chance to use it.

-Keep the snakes caught in a net from decaying/escaping. Nothing is more frustrating than going to make a snake pit only to find that your snakes are gone.

Hunting Companion

-Beef up the companion's health so that it has a chance of not dying right away. I'm not asking for its attack to be raised, just its chance of survival.

-Allow the companion to track someone regardless of skunk or local area. It's not easy getting them marked in the first place, and when the namesake of Tracking is so easily negated, it's a real downer.


As for Akui's suggestion-- I like it, but I've never been a fan of dodge to begin with, seeing as it frustrates me to no end when someone uses it against me . But, it would give Trackers some sort of defense, and that's always a plus compared to the tanks you can become with the other warrior skills.

That was more a minor issue-- the major issue is that the AB tells you to get a crystal egg, but doesn't offer any hints on how to get it. You don't even get it from a Dracnari Beastmaster-- you get it from Indiau, a Lucidian in the Mesa. No where that I have found is there even a clue that would point you in that direction.


It does? Holy crap, I must be doing something wrong. Statement retracted.


Why keep the local area requirement? As soon as they leave they can't be tracked again, unless (I may be reading wrong again) you follow them to the next local area, which defeats the purpose of tracking them to begin with. I'm not sure making Unite instantaneous will fly, as much as I'd like it. Maybe if there was a power cost?

Tracking continent-wide would be far too powerful. The local area requirement is a non-issue, really, as how hard is it to just move to the proper location to Track your target? When do fights (times when you'd want to use Track and not just BOND MOVE) take place in more than one area?

AMENDMENT: And you can't just walk normally to the person. Like when they're raiding Prime Raiding for specific objectives.

When people are raiding pixies/centaurs/etc, and they hop in, then out (to negate tracking), then back in again.

Part of the entire problem is the wonkiness of Tracking. The skillset needs some reliable, basic defenses and abilities of some sort.



Hardly. I have a cameo, remember. I do like orclach, true, but more concerning is that dex is actually important to landing wounds, so that low dex knight races, even weapon spec races, are self-defeating. This is one of those things that is... you know... sorta stupid.




Until your dog gets killed rather quickly, mind you. I wouldn't want to rely too heavily on one easily killable ent as part of fixing tracking, unless we're going to armour the damn things, like the ecology familiars.

I approve!

Because the steel plated paws let it move silently.... right?

Oh because chains don't rattle....

Psh, who said anything about silently?

Snyl's replying in the quote box makes him hard to quote, but, honestly, Trackers have noncombat utility. The dog even delivers stuff! What tracking needs is to not be a three legged dog in combat.

I'm not sure why you prefer DMP so strongly over dodge. I maintain that dodge would be a unique way to add to the nonexistant tracker defenses, without cloning the DMP approach of the magic/spiritual skill choices.

Is it as good as straight DMP? Probably not. But it would be a definite improvement over the large gap that exists now.

I hate Dodge, that's all. Never liked excessive RNG reliance.

I did not say Tracking as a whole requires utility buffs. I said there is little point in aiming for Wolfdog Combat buffs because it can be killed rather easily. The BloodThirst change, HOWEVER, is a change that would Improve Tracking (as this thread seeks to do). It was included especially because of how incredibly crappy the current BloodThirst is as an ability. Abilities in Tracking are, if nothing else, all usable (except for Track/StinkTrap... but that has been covered in the thread).

Then you must be a masochist to be playing a knight at all.

If I could have Tracking as any other class, I wouldn't be a warrior. I only play knight for traps + dog, heh. When I play at all.

This is extremely late notice since June is almost over, but Report 211 concerns tracking, if you want to talk to your envoy and get them involved in it.

I never really got why bloodthirst got added. Adds bleeding but in the long run writhing from clamp does even more. So I guess it was a way to increase your dog's offense only if you don't have clamp? I thought everybody agreed this game was balanced around omnitrans

slight offtopic maybe but I disagree with your comment about darts only being more useful in environments where you can't use pits.

I have to agree. I love the idea of Tracking, but as is it pales in comparison to a lot of the things you get with Totems, especially the boost to weapon stats from Nightkiss.

Not to mention, to be a truly "good" Tracker, you will need to also Trans Environment wherein a lot of the skills are simply repeated in Tracking. Tree Hunter, Deep Sea Hunter, and Mountain Hunter, for instance.

I'll be thinking of potential ideas for the skill set over the next couple of days. Maybe I can come up with something decent.