Unknown2009-07-31 04:48:42
QUOTE (Joli @ Jul 30 2009, 08:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LOL
I had to ask someone what hai'Gloh was.. See, it's that bad! I don't even know why we're at war!
I had to ask someone what hai'Gloh was.. See, it's that bad! I don't even know why we're at war!
Neither do I! But I just tend to nod my head and go with the flow.
Unknown2009-07-31 05:11:54
I will have to agree with a lot of sentiment here about the Celest situation. There seems to be a more or less "Don't look at each other, move along" policy in effect. During my introduction to my guild, I was essentially told, in passing, to read the ghelp selftraining file and then left to my own devices. Other than being given a weapon, which I did appreciate, I've more or less had to learn most everything on my own or with the help of non-guild members thus far.
Now, I've only been playing for roughly 3 weeks, and I can more accurately comment on the current situation in Celest, but there seems to be this crushing apathy just hanging in the air that I think would've driven most people away by now.
On the flip side, I made a character that I kind of just abandoned about two years ago in Glom, and within five minutes of having stepped out of the portal and joined a guild and the like, my superiors were handing out greetings and slaps on the back.
If anything can murder enthusiasm I would say it would be this kind of mass apathy and general sluggishness in response to helping new members, or even showing interest in the fact that they exist. Within the context of this universe, I think a strong sense of camaraderie and organizational identity is very much needed, and I've found myself to have gone wanting in that respect during my most recent play.
All in all, I would say a sense of actual inclusion is of the highest importance, while apathy and disinterest will crush new enthusiasm. In the context of a MUD especially I think, if you don't have meaningful character interactions, there's really no visual element to fall back on. Without player interaction it more or less becomes Zork.
Just my two cents.
Now, I've only been playing for roughly 3 weeks, and I can more accurately comment on the current situation in Celest, but there seems to be this crushing apathy just hanging in the air that I think would've driven most people away by now.
On the flip side, I made a character that I kind of just abandoned about two years ago in Glom, and within five minutes of having stepped out of the portal and joined a guild and the like, my superiors were handing out greetings and slaps on the back.
If anything can murder enthusiasm I would say it would be this kind of mass apathy and general sluggishness in response to helping new members, or even showing interest in the fact that they exist. Within the context of this universe, I think a strong sense of camaraderie and organizational identity is very much needed, and I've found myself to have gone wanting in that respect during my most recent play.
All in all, I would say a sense of actual inclusion is of the highest importance, while apathy and disinterest will crush new enthusiasm. In the context of a MUD especially I think, if you don't have meaningful character interactions, there's really no visual element to fall back on. Without player interaction it more or less becomes Zork.
Just my two cents.
Razenth2009-07-31 05:13:17
2 years ago in Glom? Man, you got guts. Then again, I've always thought Glom had a really good, tight knit community, since they had to be to keep on going whilst being the armpit of the Basin for so long.
Zallafar2009-07-31 05:17:25
Here's a little different take. "In another time and place" I was a novice trainer and was doing it constantly. My guild had a set routine of about 20 items you needed to go over with a novice, like explaining each of the skills we had them learn, having them try out some of them, learning things that prevent you getting killed right away (e.g. probe creatures before hitting them). It took about an hour and half and it drove the novices crazy and it burned me out something fierce.
So I don't want to train novices anymore. I'd resent it. I'm perfectly willing to answer some questions, or take someone to the Moon Bubble for the planar quest. I sailed a novice to Crumkindivia the other day for the quest. I answer stuff on the Newbie channel sometimes. But I'm not going to offer to train anyone. And I have no interest in being a position where I am obligated to show newbies the ropes. I'd just get tired of it and simply leave the game.
So I don't want to train novices anymore. I'd resent it. I'm perfectly willing to answer some questions, or take someone to the Moon Bubble for the planar quest. I sailed a novice to Crumkindivia the other day for the quest. I answer stuff on the Newbie channel sometimes. But I'm not going to offer to train anyone. And I have no interest in being a position where I am obligated to show newbies the ropes. I'd just get tired of it and simply leave the game.
Diamondais2009-07-31 05:31:45
QUOTE (Zallafar @ Jul 31 2009, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's a little different take. "In another time and place" I was a novice trainer and was doing it constantly. My guild had a set routine of about 20 items you needed to go over with a novice, like explaining each of the skills we had them learn, having them try out some of them, learning things that prevent you getting killed right away (e.g. probe creatures before hitting them). It took about an hour and half and it drove the novices crazy and it burned me out something fierce.
So I don't want to train novices anymore. I'd resent it. I'm perfectly willing to answer some questions, or take someone to the Moon Bubble for the planar quest. I sailed a novice to Crumkindivia the other day for the quest. I answer stuff on the Newbie channel sometimes. But I'm not going to offer to train anyone. And I have no interest in being a position where I am obligated to show newbies the ropes. I'd just get tired of it and simply leave the game.
So I don't want to train novices anymore. I'd resent it. I'm perfectly willing to answer some questions, or take someone to the Moon Bubble for the planar quest. I sailed a novice to Crumkindivia the other day for the quest. I answer stuff on the Newbie channel sometimes. But I'm not going to offer to train anyone. And I have no interest in being a position where I am obligated to show newbies the ropes. I'd just get tired of it and simply leave the game.
I've felt your pain many a time, I love helping newbies but I run far away from teaching sometimes.
Mirami2009-07-31 05:34:41
About the whole Celestian-novice thing... I found that my Paladin Alt a while back actually had the best reception of any of my novices that I've created, with regards to the collegium (Mira got caught up in racial RP the second day/hour I logged in, so I'd call that the best reception).
The worst experiences I've had have been those where I got no introduction and the CLHELP scroll basically said "Here, to graduate from novicehood, you'll need a full set of curatives and know how to cure everything, pass a test on long-forgotten guild history, and know how to gather cows for village revolts". The most helpful help I ever received was in the Serenguard, since they had their Braves learn all the basics, plus Teleport and up to Bear in totems if you took totems, which took all your lessons. This benefited the teacher because they didn't have to help apportion lessons and the novice because it was all laid out and because you could survive without PORTALS.<br /><br /></div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553819]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Unknown</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 08:34:27</span><label for="hide_reply[553819]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content">I really only glanced over this, so I might have misinterpreted the overall points/sentiment, but I think:<br /><br />1. Every org has people who are GREAT about orienting/helping novices and those that or HORRIBLE at it.<br /><br />2. Within every org, there are times (and days) where it is horrible to be a novice and great to be a novice, generally based on who is around in #1 and what, if any, events are going on. On example (and this has happened in multiple orgs, this is just the one I remember off the top of my head) is I created a Serenguard novice. No help, no welcome, 15 citizens on prime, FOUR guildmembers on prime, two of those over GR 4. Then, only THREE hours later, I created ANOTHER Serenguard novice, and received 3 welcomes and two offers of training within the guild. <br /><br />3. Wholeheartedly agree that at this time Celest would probably get poorer marks in this area more often than other orgs. I'll not use people leaving/general malaise as an excuse, but it is a reality. The people who are still in Celest just need to try harder, very much including myself.<br /><br />4. I partially agree with Estarra and partially Lendren. I hate - *HATE* - the newbie spam that comes up saying, "Welcome, soandso! Please read CGHELP BLAH, CGHELP BLEH, and CGHELP BLARGH!" Especially since most people trigger it with no delay off of the Please welcome so and so as a new member line. It makes it NPC looking, impersonal, and if you have 3 or so people who do it all one at the same time, probably overwhelming to a newbie even if it's all saying the same thing. HOWEVER, some people would rather read things then interact with a person initially, and that's okay, too. I'm still a fan of creating one collegium help file that suggests, "If you want to meet some of your new citizens and learn more about your world and what you should do now, tell us by: CGT Could someone please help me get used to this crazy new Basin!", or if you're more bookish and shy, please read <Insert general CGHELP files> and then your guild's specific help scroll by CGHELP <Your guild here>.<br /><br />Obviously there are outside influences beyond all this. Less literate people in the world. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> A more visually stimulated populace. Gamers being raised in a culture of pew pew. But I think that some of us just plain need to care more IG and make the sacrifice of time. And it does get frustrating when you think, "Man, I just spent an hour of my time with this newbie who probably won't stick around for more than a week - alt or not." I guess all you can do is keep tweaking your novvie welcome system slowly and hope that slowly you'll retain more and more of them.<br /></div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553820]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Unknown</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 08:49:20</span><label for="hide_reply[553820]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><!--quoteo(post=677795:date=Jul 31 2009, 12:34 AM:name=AllergictoSabres)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AllergictoSabres @ Jul 31 2009, 12:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=677795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. I partially agree with Estarra and partially Lendren. I hate - *HATE* - the newbie spam that comes up saying, "Welcome, soandso! Please read CGHELP BLAH, CGHELP BLEH, and CGHELP BLARGH!" Especially since most people trigger it with no delay off of the Please welcome so and so as a new member line. It makes it NPC looking, impersonal, and if you have 3 or so people who do it all one at the same time, probably overwhelming to a newbie even if it's all saying the same thing. HOWEVER, some people would rather read things then interact with a person initially, and that's okay, too. I'm still a fan of creating one collegium help file that suggests, <b>"If you want to meet some of your new citizens and learn more about your world and what you should do now, tell us by: CGT Could someone please help me get used to this crazy new Basin!", or if you're more bookish and shy, please read <Insert general CGHELP files> and then your guild's specific help scroll by CGHELP <Your guild here>.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />I don't remember which guild it was, long time ago, but one of them did have a scroll saying something quite similar. Wish I could remember but I doubt it'd still be there, with the collegium and what not.</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553821]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Lawliet</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 12:07:05</span><label for="hide_reply[553821]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><!--quoteo(post=677766:date=Jul 31 2009, 06:17 AM:name=Zallafar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zallafar @ Jul 31 2009, 06:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=677766"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's a little different take. "In another time and place" I was a novice trainer and was doing it constantly. My guild had a set routine of about 20 items you needed to go over with a novice, like explaining each of the skills we had them learn, having them try out some of them, learning things that prevent you getting killed right away (e.g. probe creatures before hitting them). It took about an hour and half and it drove the novices crazy and it burned me out something fierce.<br /><br />So I don't want to train novices anymore. I'd resent it. I'm perfectly willing to answer some questions, or take someone to the Moon Bubble for the planar quest. I sailed a novice to Crumkindivia the other day for the quest. I answer stuff on the Newbie channel sometimes. But I'm not going to offer to train anyone. And I have no interest in being a position where I am obligated to show newbies the ropes. I'd just get tired of it and simply leave the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />That's pretty much where I'm at, too, I taught COUNTLESS novices and I tried to make it as interesting as possible but so far as I can tell NONE of them are around now, only one of my novices ever actually got beyond GR 3 and it is really disheartening to notice that and then suddenly (this was kongregate time) every single novice we get is a <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/censor.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":censor:" border="0" alt="censor.gif" />-wit.<br /><br />But yeah, trying again, greeting novices, blargh.<br /><br />I'm not sure about the whole scrolls/people preferance, as soon as I stepped through the portal I read as much as I can (I do that) before my teacher showed up, noticed I already knew everything and sent me off to newtons, as Estarra said Newtons is a good place to start, the combat gets people interested, they like to gain levels and seeing as using scrolls will get them there quicker I support them to a degree.<br /><br />I recognise that differant people learn differantly so we shouldn't really say "Scrolls are bad", "No! Personal teaching takes too long!", more we should try and teach the new novices individually and try to find what's best for each individual novice regardless of what you prefer.</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553822]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Unknown</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 13:30:29</span><label for="hide_reply[553822]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/suspicious.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspicious:" border="0" alt="suspicious.gif" /> Honestly, at the rate that Celest is going... I think they're closing it down to open another lost City...<br />(Gaudiguch Pyromancers, anyone? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cookie.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":cookie:" border="0" alt="cookie.gif" />)<br /><br />The novice reception is not really the best of most... It's not that there aren't any who actually bother, there are, but they can't have the job to themselves all the time... I help lots of Novices around Glom (I don't use 'nub', so harsh <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blackeye.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blackeye:" border="0" alt="blackeye.gif" /> ) and I enjoy it, most of the time, but it gets tiring and you just want a break from it at times and run away. Now everyone has to pitch in on helping Novices get acquainted with Lusternia, remember, you were there too. Now, unless you up the ante of our salary (presuming your Undersecretaries have 'em) to that of the Guides, we won't be so faithful to the guiding. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/deal.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":deal:" border="0" alt="deal.gif" /><br /><br />RP is good, especially in training someone personally but... Learn to know when you're going overboard and being threateningly scary. Too much RP will be too overwhelming, with all the reading involved, they might get pressured to have a background or way to act ASAP. And so I personally think that going off to OOC wouldn't really hurt, and also telling them on how to differentiate, like the brackets or parenthesis, etc. And it's easier to teach, at times, if the conventional way of subliminal messages don't work like; <br /><br />"Try imploring NATURE to give you your TALISMAN."<br />or<br />"Your power with NATURE allows you to CURSE living things into death."<br /><br />Since it's not really nice to suddenly start screaming, 'NATURE TALISMAN, NATURE CURSE, JUST DO IT!' Or just feeling stupid after repeating that like a bajillion times and end up telling them "// It's NATURE CURSE..."<br /><br />That's all, for now... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":blink:" border="0" alt="blink.gif" /><br /><br />Edit: Wow, that went off longer than I thought it would be...</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553823]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Gregori</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 13:41:26</span><label for="hide_reply[553823]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><!--quoteo(post=677745:date=Jul 30 2009, 09:55 PM:name=Saran)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saran @ Jul 30 2009, 09:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=677745"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Just off news postings I think I saw some low rank kicked from a guild because they questioned the leadership openly. Normally (if I were an active leader) I'd take claims of my inactivity as a note to check if I've been hiding or offline more often recently. If people were questioning my leadership, I would want to know why. Though maybe it's cause I have the belief that we should always be able to question any decision our leaders make, so that we can understand it or try to share our pov.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />Without turning this into a flame war... the "low rank" in the guild was not a "newb". in fact him and his two cohorts were alts of not only well known characters, but characters who are leadership/have been leadership in another guild currently in the Serenwilde. They were created with a singular purpose for which I am sure that Saran is well aware of, but conveinently leaving out, and that was to cause trouble within Hartstone. (how do I know this? I was told by members of their clan of their plan when they joined). The only reason they were not issued on the matter from the start is because as the preference to handle matters In Game is preferred, I knew when they started making trouble it would be obvious and they could be dealt with. As they were.<br /><br /><br />Citing an example of seconds abuse as a reason for why "new people to lusternia might leave" is not in any way relevant to the situation Lendren seeks to fix.</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553824]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Everiine</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 14:13:55</span><label for="hide_reply[553824]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><!--quoteo(post=677795:date=Jul 31 2009, 03:34 AM:name=AllergictoSabres)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AllergictoSabres @ Jul 31 2009, 03:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=677795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. I partially agree with Estarra and partially Lendren. I hate - *HATE* - the newbie spam that comes up saying, "Welcome, soandso! Please read CGHELP BLAH, CGHELP BLEH, and CGHELP BLARGH!" Especially since most people trigger it with no delay off of the Please welcome so and so as a new member line. It makes it NPC looking, impersonal, and if you have 3 or so people who do it all one at the same time, probably overwhelming to a newbie even if it's all saying the same thing. HOWEVER, some people would rather read things then interact with a person initially, and that's okay, too. I'm still a fan of creating one collegium help file that suggests, "If you want to meet some of your new citizens and learn more about your world and what you should do now, tell us by: CGT Could someone please help me get used to this crazy new Basin!", or if you're more bookish and shy, please read <Insert general CGHELP files> and then your guild's specific help scroll by CGHELP <Your guild here>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br />If I notice that someone is greeting new novices with a trigger (and it's pretty easy to tell), I'll tell them to knock it off. We used to have a HUGE problem with that. Other than that, I haven't seen many novice greetings that were overwhelming. They usually welcome the novice, give one scroll to read, and say how to use the Collegium aether if they need help. Very concise, but not abrupt. I used to actually greet novices, tell them how to say hello over the collegium aether, and only after they responded would I move ahead with asking about training. I stopped doing it because I was always getting interrupted by the macro people.</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553825]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Joli</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 14:15:50</span><label for="hide_reply[553825]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content">What is the polite way to tell someone that their newbie greeting trigger royally pisses you off???</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553826]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Unknown</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 15:22:27</span><label for="hide_reply[553826]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content">Send them a pretty tell five times that triggers the greeting. And if it's name sensitive, set the supposed Novice's name to something silly like... 'Andiheartkrin'... So they're all "Welcome and Iheartkirin!" on the Commune or City Aether?</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553827]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Fania</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 15:48:36</span><label for="hide_reply[553827]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><!--quoteo(post=677858:date=Jul 31 2009, 07:15 AM:name=Joli)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joli @ Jul 31 2009, 07:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=677858"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is the polite way to tell someone that their newbie greeting trigger royally pisses you off???<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />Keep triggering the trigger to stop him. Works if you send him tells <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" /> It's probably best just to tell Ryboi politely that his trigger bothers you. <br /><br />I think the biggest mistake we make in Celest is that we keep to our own guilds. A new citizen arrives and we assume that their guildmates have it under control. Usually, with the Aquamancers, someone does. But with smaller guilds like the Tahtetso and the Cantors there may be no one around to teach them. Even though you may not be the best trainer, there is no reason not to teach these people. If they feel like they are alone, they are much more likely to leave. If there is someone in their guild around then it's probably best that they are taught by them. There is nothing wrong with speaking to a novice, and making sure they are being helped. It frustrates me when someone asks on CGT how their guild's novices are doing - as if to say other novices aren't important to them. Do your best to teach them. You can help them find the right help file to read and together you can figure out what you need to know. <br /><br />One quest I really don't like is the healing quest in Celest's collegium. It's impossible for the novices to do on their own. I absolutely don't mind helping them out with the quest. Often I will go with someone and hand them herbs after they figure out the cures. It's not that it's inconvenient for me, but if a novice shows up on their own they might not be able to do the quest. I would think it's very frustrating to new players.<br /><br />Also about the planar quest: Is there any way that it can be changed, so that novices don't have to go to enemy planes to finish it? I know you can go to aether bubbles, but those aren't so easy to get to.</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553828]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Ayisdra</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 16:03:23</span><label for="hide_reply[553828]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content">My first character, a shadowdancer, didn't even make it past the intro. I hate, and still do, the intro. I understand its suppose to help you but to me the intro is the manual of the game in a way. (something I never read for games, and if I do its for the pictures ...)<br /><br />As for greeting novices, I have just given up and greeting novices other than my own. When I first became a professor for the shadowmaze and greeted someone and was helping them out. I got 'yelled' at saying that someone from the guild should be helping. Recently, I helped someone else inguild to the nekotai. I didn't see anyone on who could do it so I took him to the NPC. The moment I do it, Janalon tells me he could have done it (and yet he was off prime, in a manse I believe is where he was.)<br /><br />Ayisdra was never greeted or told to read the help files as told (and my free lessons didn't go where they probably should have because of it). Most of the people he likes interacting with end up leaving or are not around much (Tajalli, Silferras and a few others in the BT).<br /><br />In the end, Ayisdra rarely takes the first step now a days to contract the newbies. He helps them if they ask him, but he doesn't go "Do you need help?". Something I have always hated, my take on it is that if someone really needs help they will ask. (Which the scrolls and such should say so as if they don't, it is assumed (by most people I know that I have asked) that they shouldn't ask for help and the tasks should be done on your own.</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553829]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Unknown</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 16:17:37</span><label for="hide_reply[553829]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content">Well it all comes down to it, although we're getting fancy titles, we're not being paid or anything to help novices. It's going to have to be a self-motivator sort of things, I know for me it's discouraging spending time on a novice and giving them between 5-10k for a lowbie weapon and some vials, etc... just to have them never come back.<br /><br />Another is that often times, most of us are in the middle of something important, and referring to a HELP file buys us time until we can get to them.<br /><br />But one thing that turned and still turns me off of Lusternia, is some of the artie whores( you know who you are) and top tier combatants ignoring tells, or questions or etc...</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553830]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Fania</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 16:18:14</span><label for="hide_reply[553830]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><!--quoteo(post=677877:date=Jul 31 2009, 09:03 AM:name=Ayisdra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ayisdra @ Jul 31 2009, 09:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=677877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In the end, Ayisdra rarely takes the first step now a days to contract the newbies. <b>He helps them if they ask him, but he doesn't go "Do you need help?". Something I have always hated, my take on it is that if someone really needs help they will ask.</b> (Which the scrolls and such should say so as if they don't, it is assumed (by most people I know that I have asked) that they shouldn't ask for help and the tasks should be done on your own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />Actually, many people don't ask when they need help. Especially, if they don't know or aren't comfortable with the people around them. Maybe people shouldn't need to ask for help but is it really worth losing commune members - or players just because "they aren't supposed to ask". <br />Seriously WTF? Do you want people to give up and stop playing?</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553831]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Ayisdra</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 16:36:31</span><label for="hide_reply[553831]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><!--quoteo(post=677884:date=Jul 31 2009, 12:18 PM:name=Fania)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fania @ Jul 31 2009, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=677884"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, many people don't ask when they need help. Especially, if they don't know or aren't comfortable with the people around them. Maybe people shouldn't need to ask for help but is it really worth losing commune members - or players just because "they aren't supposed to ask". <br />Seriously WTF? Do you want people to give up and stop playing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />Commune members: It doesn't really matter to me or not. I am not really active (active in terms of actually doing. I will come up with ideas and all that, but I'm not the one who makes it happen and performs it) in the commune. <br /><br />Players: of course we shouldn't want to lose players. But having someone asking you many times if you need help gets annoying. <br /><br />Those who are familiar with the BT's assembly system; My friend went through the first two having many issues trying to learn about demesne (Making, effect timing, breaking, etc). When I asked, OOCly, why she wasn't asking for help she replied, "I thought it was suppose to be done on your own without help, if you were supposed to ask it should say that."<br /><br />There is a line between trying to be helpful and being annoying when you are asking if someone needs help.</div></div><div class="forum-reply"><input class="hide_reply" type="checkbox" id="hide_reply[553832]" hidden /><div class="forum-reply-meta"><span class="forum-reply-author">Tervic</span><span class="forum-reply-date">2009-07-31 16:47:12</span><label for="hide_reply[553832]" role="switch">Show/Hide</label></div><div class="forum-reply-content"><!--quoteo(post=677890:date=Jul 31 2009, 09:36 AM:name=Ayisdra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ayisdra @ Jul 31 2009, 09:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=677890"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Commune members: It doesn't really matter to me or not. I am not really active (active in terms of actually doing. I will come up with ideas and all that, but I'm not the one who makes it happen and performs it) in the commune. <br /><br />Players: of course we shouldn't want to lose players. But having someone asking you many times if you need help gets annoying. <br /><br />Those who are familiar with the BT's assembly system; My friend went through the first two having many issues trying to learn about demesne (Making, effect timing, breaking, etc). When I asked, OOCly, why she wasn't asking for help she replied, "I thought it was suppose to be done on your own without help, if you were supposed to ask it should say that."<br /><br />There is a line between trying to be helpful and being annoying when you are asking if someone needs help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><br /><br />I agree that it's a very fine line, since everyone has varying levels of 'hand-holding' that they like/need. I myself am incredibly independent, so I didn't need or even want a lot of hands-on help. That said, when helping novices, I usually try to do it in a casual fashion that isn't obviously 'helping', such as asking the weeviling novice if they'd like some company. More often than not, cultivating an air of approachability will draw out the questions, and as long as you're consistently making it known that you're open and available, then novices, lowbies, and even midbies won't feel like they're being abandoned or forgotten about, and there's less risk of annoying people by directly bothering them with 'have you done this yet? Are you ok? What's going on? BLAHAAAAHAHAH'<br /><br />Furthermore, I've been finding that newer/younger characters are amazing opportunities for roleplaying, since they tend to have very few preconceptions about how things should be. It can be quite refreshing at times!<br /><br />Minor edits added.</div></div></div><div class="forum-meta"><div class="forum-pagination"><ul><li><a href="/archive/forums/thread/27567/1/">1</a></li><li><a href="/archive/forums/thread/27567/2/">2</a></li><li class="current"><a href="/archive/forums/thread/27567/3/">3</a></li><li><a href="/archive/forums/thread/27567/4/">4</a></li><li><a href="/archive/forums/thread/27567/5/">5</a></li><li><a href="/archive/forums/thread/27567/6/">6</a></li><li><a href="/archive/forums/thread/27567/7/">7</a></li><li><a href="/archive/forums/thread/27567/8/">8</a></li></ul></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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The worst experiences I've had have been those where I got no introduction and the CLHELP