So,

The intent and purpose of the envoy system is to check the various skills of Lusternia in order to balance the game as a whole. This system has been largely effective, most of the reports have been about things which honestly -really- do need to be looked at, and I can only thank the envoys who honestly care about the game this way.

Of course, there are a few bad apples, but hey, every group has them. The problem is that ever since the beginning of a certain war, a certain group of envoys (of course there are exceptions) from a certain org have made it their goal to make reports that specifically target the other side, taking them so far as to actually make some pretty ridiculous comments and "solutions", all of which you can read.

Let's not lie, every side has used the envoy system to try to get what they want when it comes to buffing your side and nerfing your enemies, but can we at least try to hide this fact? The envoy reports from May 2009 onward contain some of the most ridiculous reports and comments that I have ever read, and I can only wonder how on earth some of these guys became envoys. You have trees ergo no knocking down from the sky, fae should explode on prime, hitting a choked person should also choke the hitter but the reverse should not happen when you hit the choker, one group splitting ability (fearaura) is OP but another one isn't (carcer), the list goes on and on.

To be clear: I don't care that you use your envoy slot to suggest downgrades to skills not of your own. I am perfectly fine with it (and I have suggested/supported quite a few myself, raise cudgel being nerfed for example), but good god, at least try and consider whether the nerf is warranted and to actually do some research beforehand. Make comments or reports for the sake of fixing the game, not beating the other guy.

Right, let's discuss, try and not get this thread closed please

I've honestly never seen it worse than it is right now. It's pretty rough. :/

The main point of envoys is to try to come up with game balance, with varying views / standpoints. Envoys are not infallible, nor should any of us be expected to be... part of the envoy system is that we are supposed to try to work together to come up with the best solution. Fill in the gaps, answer questions, and bring to bear a huge amount of game / skill experience so that there are not misconceptions making it into the final report. The recent trend has not been in that direction, though.

When I was envoy, it was soooo complicated. You guys have that jargon that makes my brain melt and fall out of my ears!

If you have concerns like this, it goes without saying that you should probably be contacting support at lusternia.com. We're not big fans of envoys trying to continuously push organizational agendas rather than pushing for actual combat balance.

I see what you mean, in fact, it always looked that way on that side of the Basin, some reports that aren't needed, but it looks more obvious right now. I suppose in their defense, they would say that now that they have to deal with them more, they know how powerful they are. Only they would know the truth, dark and bitter it would be, and in the end, you have no choice but to drink it down.

The reverse could be true as well, considering "one" organization is teaming up with their envoys, and oddly enough that organization's envoys always seem to agree with each other when buffing their own skills, but also agree with each other constantly when trying to downgrade a skill that hurts them. Harder to prove? Sure. But it still happens.

I think there should be some sort of "idiot" button, where if the admin see some suggestion that is just plane old retarted, they warn the envoy. If they do it again, they kick them out and find a new one

Well yeah, that also happens, I am sure no one's innocent, the point of post stands though -> don't make comments/reports that aren't for the good of the game.

Ha! Not my fault this time, we don't even have an envoy .

I think report 225 and 230 are all anyone needs to read, hehe.

As Charune said, if you suspect someone of gaming the envoy system and can point to some specific evidence, we'd definitely take a look at whether that person's objectivity is in question and whether they should continue as an envoy. I will say that there have been envoys in the past (this doesn't necessarily apply to current envoys) where we look at a suggestion and ask ourselves whether that person really has no concept of combat balance, or is trying to pull the wool over our eyes to get something obviously overpowered passed (or overly nerfing an opponent's ability), or is 'shooting for the moon' in the expectation that the admin probably won't give them everything in the suggestion but hope they'd get at least some partial or watered down version. If we ask ourselves this enough times about an envoy, we generally begin to question the integrity and/or objectivity of every suggestion that person gives. On the other hand, if an envoy nerfs their own skills, beefs up other organizations' skills when needed, gives us objective arguments when we ask for them on the envoy channel, is obviously working towards the overall game balance regardless of affiliation, then that envoy is gold to us and when that person speaks, we will listen to them much closer than we might other envoys. (Indeed, two such people have exhibited those traits to such a degree that they've been elevated to Special Envoy.)

He's obviously never played Warcraft 3.

the same can be said for all sides tbh. i get tired of hearing some of the stupid :censor: being said about skills from both sides.

The *****ers and moaners aren't going to be happy until every member of an archetype has access to completely identical sets of abilities. Crow must be identical to Hart, Aquamancy must be identical to Druidry, Starhymn must be identical to Necroscream (Starscream?).

i dont see any prob with choke how it is outside of getting zerged with it. carcer is annoying but it doesnt tend to last long. fearaura is stong but its not hard to return to a room if you pay attention and has plenty of counters.

sorry for multiple posts, phone doesnt like long ones! anyway, not all skills need nerfed, some people just need to learn to play the game and bitch less its how you get better.

Fearaura can really mess up people with delayed instant kills like me, so I don't like it. Still, I guess I can work around it; just means I have to throw 2 or 3 Soulless instead of one.

The point of the thread isn't to discuss specific matters but the overall purpose and abuse being handled instead. As has been pointed out above, both sides included, it's been happening quite heavily these past few cycles and I quite agree with the overall issues being brought up.

So, Solution! Tradeskill month!

For the month of August, only Envoy reports related to tradeskills will be accepted.

Stupid question: How do I go about seeing envoy reports?