I think perhaps some of the players need to look inward at their own scenario. Everyone is so quick to complain about lack of RP but so unwilling to put effort into it themselves. Yes, if I directly chose to speak out against Eventru he would zap me, from an IC perspective that is perfectly reasonable response for he is a God. One must be accountable for their character and willing to accept the choices of that character. I really feel like most people only see the, "Oh noes I lost 7% exp" and start crying when there is so much more depth and enjoyment to be had from these interactions. You have to trust and accept that if you handle yourself maturely and with respect to IC/OOC that -no- God will be allowed to run purely rampant amongst the IRE games, any that have -WERE- removed. Most often these extreme situations are facilitated by player angst and poor handling on both sides, it's just easier to point fingers at the guy with the bigger stick. In most ways a God can make your experience 'bad' players are just as capable if not more capable of griefing you as they aren't held accountable by being a God and representation of IRE as a business.

Our divine among IRE are often very intelligent and creative people, from my understanding most of them began was players on one of the muds that are usually extremely well liked and influential, they're not just random schmucks thrown into the mix with no understanding how this all works like you all seem to treat them often in these forums. So, call me an ass kisser, I don't care. When they aren't involved enough or when people wanted them to be there has been complaints and this thread shows the other side of the spectrum.


I am a paying member of the IRE community, I'm valuable to them as a company they -are- aware of this. I'm more then willing to hold steadfast to the beliefs and opinions of my character within the realm of his personality. What if Lady Viravain asked something of me that I did not wish for some logical IC reason I opposed. I wouldn't concede defeat from OOC fear of Viravain, that's both giving her too much credit and not enough all at once. With the proper tact and good RP good things can come from the bad in these situations. Out side of the off chance that I'm purposefully acting out a martyr what makes you think that she or any other Divine would not be aware that a certain player or org has continually gotten the short end from their RP/altercations, they keep these things in mind I assure you, what goes around comes around. My theoretical denial of Viravain may put me on the bad kid list, but if we both worked as adults to RP an enjoyable experience out of it, is that list so bad? RP doesn't equate to lolzomg I win, thx for favourz god.

I disagree.

I'm completely with Everiine on this one.

You can't. Defending Avatars of Night and Moon directly benefit the org that they are part of. Same with Demon Lords and Supernals. If the Demon Lords or Supernals go down, all of Magnagora or Celest suffers. If a god realm is attacked only that order suffers.

And I don't believe Gods are part of a org. They provide counsel, assistance, but in the end they are a seperate entity with their own goals and plans. A city counsel could tell them to f' off because no one wants to listen to them. A god is not bound to the hip with any city or commune.

If a god is a patron of an org, how is that god's realm not part of an org as well? Whether or not the character in question is a part of any given god's Order, they do benefit one way or another from the pantheon of Divine over their nation.

I don't think we can expect to have the gods help us, answer our questions and offer council if we don't help them out as well.....

And while I'm on the subject, give the God's having flaws thing a freaking break. Are we so dull that players can't ascertain the very typical archetypes our God's fill as characters? Nearly every Divine on an IRE mud has some sort of fundamental character flaw(s). The backdrop for Lusternia borrows much from mythology and the Divine do a very good job of fulfilling the tyrannical rather.. well insane qualities that they embody.

Eventru as a player has fun, certainly with his little tirades and shouts, I'm sure. But if you can't see by now that it is how the character is being played at this point, I don't know what to tell you. It's not always just random decisions to be odd and make a scene OOC, like people seemingly thing. The Eventru character has some very obvious and consistent personality quirks, he is -not- perfect, we as mortals as imperfect as we are dare not judge him, perhaps. I digress, open your eyes. Too much black and white, (I want my way) thought processes here.

Am I the only one who remembers when godrealms came out that people wanted it to be kept as just order vs. order?

From a OOC perspective I think only orders should be expected to defend a realm to give us a different form of conflict. If not then it is the same org vs. org that we always have. ICly, I believe a realm is 100% that god's land. He has every say over it and in turn he should be expected to defend it. If someone from outside the order wishes to help, that is fine. But it should not at all be expected for a entire city to help. Until a city can decide to build in a god's realm and put in guards a god's realm should be seen as a seperate entity that belongs 100% to that god.

I think part of the problem is that people believe gods are perfect. Gods, even Eventru says he's not perfect. He wont say he's not perfect, but he has told me that he doesn't know everything. Fania had a conversation about who is beyond saving for the Light a lonnnnng time ago. He said that the divine don't even know. He's also said similar things like this in the past. It is really the players' faults if they follow him unconditionally.

Well, sometimes it's fun to play a zealot and follow Gods unconditionally. Ever RP out having a psychotic break because you just can't rationalize your crazy Patron's directives anymore? SO FUN.

Not going to far?! You forced a divorce for funsies! What the is that?!

Drama!

The problem lies in the players who play a zealot, but complain about the consequences of playing a zealot. I'm just saying you have a choice either way.

And no, I wouldn't call it a psychotic break...

We got PLENTY of drama from Celest, thank you

A forced divorce by a divine. Sounds like an awesome opportunity for tons of RP, but people would rather go cry to Mommy.

Star-crossed lovers, denying the Divine will with the power of love anyone? I guess it's easier to beg for a cookie in a whiney voice.

You don't have to be mean about it. People seem to forget that feelings sometimes affect people beyond their character. You don't need to upset her more.

The way I view it, Glomdoring is a commune, a community where every part makes the whole and thus every part is important, which includes the Godrealms, thus if you are part of the commune, defending the Godrealm is just as important as Avatars, because they are both a part of the whole, which just happens to fall into the Shroud of Lord Nocht's Order I feel most in tune with, just my thoughts.

I'm not intending to be mean about that specific case, it's just an easy example of a relevant issue. In truth, if I were in that situation and severely unhappy as a player, simply irrefutably unable to work within the confines of the situation, I'd do one of two specific things right off.

tell (Divine) //Pardon, but I would really like to speak with you, when you've time, I'm a little upset.

Or msg (Divine) // Same message jist.

They're people, they're here to help us enjoy this game. And ICly they're divine so they can fix problems if they have too. I doubt any Divine seeks to outright make you unhappy.

See what I did there? I didn't bash them and basically become a squeaky wheel on forums. I didn't act high and mighty about being a customer, or rude. (Not even thinly veiled OOC rudeness through IC discourse *coughyouknowwhoyouareiwhenyoureadthat*. I politely asked for their time to discuss the matter as (wo)men, to express my concern and disgruntlement. The usual course most people take here just likely offsets the Divine player and makes them less likely to interact with you or help you in the future, etc.

Shaddus doesn't really know what he was talking about.

Narsrim was favoured some for the XI first time around, when he did lead much of it.

I favoured him recently for stopping haigloh. I'm quite confident that without him killing ethereal mobs constantly they would have completed it.

Edit: As far as the topic at hand..

Church and State should respect each other, but not govern either. Here we have a failure in such, and it's not going to be tolerated for long I imagine.

I'm not THAT upset by it (I'm lying, I'm dead inside), the point was it seemed like he was going a LITTLE too far, and as for how Lawliet handles things, she's not gonna be enjoying the "Star-crossed lovers" approach to that, the ONLY way of handling it that suits her personality is mass defiling and that either gets her killed, disfavoured/removed for disobeying the treaty or MASSIVELY god-disfavoured by Fain, just puts her in a bad position, unless she sits there and takes it, which is the only punishment-free way of doing things a LOT of the time when divine start to get involved.

I'll give an example, Eventru throws a tantrum and starts shouting his head off, people are, at this point, either obliged to shout back or sit and cower/ignore, Eventrus RP is flashy and obnoxious, from a character perspective it's a given that eventually he will just attack people if you ignore him, because, y'know, flasy obnoxious people are attention whores and when you ignore and attention whore at first it always gets worse.

So they have to respond to him if they're in the least bit in character, this gets the zapped or magotted or punished in some way, he's just insulted them, they're not going to be terribly polite, so they get punished, see where I'm going with this?

I LIKE god RP, in theory, but so far the only good god RP I got was from Elostian and Isune popping up in my manse (He promised he'd come visit again and he never did ), my other experiances include: Getting Zapped (Phasers were never set to kill on me, oddly), being force fed after being teleported to the pool, being insulted, listening to gods have massive pissing contests (You know it's a good one when the piss is going from a city to a forest) and, oh yeah, being forced to divorce.

Edit: I will say there was an alternative to the divorce but it's COMPLETELY against her RP to do that and has been written in stone since day one.

Great list, no?

Fain, from my experience, has rarely directly involved himself in Magnagoran politics and I personally can't recall one time he issued a divine mandate for a single person in the way he is now, so I assume he has a good reason. I'm glad for this, because it allowed things to play out instead of halting everything with "Fain said so."

Though Sthai and I were talking about it earlier, and sometimes if you are high enough in the order, you can just say "Fain willed it" to get people to shut up and do what they are told.

Don't forget, you can always tell a god "no." Directly or indirectly, you can do it! Might not be healthy, but if you feel strongly enough about an issue ICly, the most they can do is zap you.