One of the elements of this game that sets it apart from many others in the genre is the ability to interact with Divines. This has overall been an enjoyable experience for many of us including myself.

However, I think for the sake of the balance of the game Divines should not directly force their hand in matters of city or commune politics. I'm sure many of you can think of examples this would hurt gameplay.

Obviously each commune or city has a particular Divine they prefer. The majority versus the majority.

You can argue that would create a new dynamic. Another conflict. However, I feel it would prove more harm than good and without restrictions would easily spiral out of control. Blatant and open favoritism would be the most glaring problem.

A recent occurrence involves the return of a citizen to Magnagora. By a Divine's decree this person was to have their former nobility restored--CR6. Many of you understand favours are not handed out like candy. So where does it stop?

Basically, my concern is this or any like it may set a precedent. Before, those that have returned to a city/commune had to climb up the ranks again. Which makes sense. Although this particular situation is not exactly the same as many org hoppers, it concerns me.

That's not a lot of information to run with, really. For all I know, that person didn't deserve to come back at all. For all I know, you should have been on your knees trying to bury him in credits to get him back. Probably somewhere in between, though.

I love how involved Divine are here. It's a fine line, staying highly involved without becoming just another player in everyone's eyes, and most everyone here stays right on that border. Kudos to them for that, and I hope it continues the way it has. At least, this is my experience.

Quoted the important part I think. That said, one has to simply realize and accept that the admin/gods aren't retards and have a little faith! Imo.

Nothing as of yet has occured that I really think you should raise a red flag, not in these concerns. The admin has proven unusually receptive to our wants, even if we complain when we get it.

The situation in question is pretty heavy with favoritism ICly. I am quite certain that OOCly, there's absolutely no harm intended as the Divine is question is quite a superb RPer. The annoying thing is that ICly, he just seems to want to stir up a big pit of trouble... as this is all that can come out of it and I feel bad for the people who have to bear the brunt of it as the city leaders. Quite a bit of Magnagoran citizens not in this Divine's Order are very upset with it... especially citizens of high standing. Hell, quite a few people IN the Divine's order are upset with it, and they can't do anything about it I guess we'll see how it ends. All I can think of right now is "lulz"

I'm pretty sure there's information to this that most don't know, and don't need to know. There's more than meets the eye, and it's not Optimus Prime.



I don't personally think Narsrim needs to get 3-4 cityfavours every frigging weave just because he does a majority of the XI.

you all better start giving me some damn favors!

Lately I wish the gods would just shut up for a change. Probably doesn't help that my IC stance on..pretty much all my characters is more or less anti-Divine, but really some of them just love to hear themselves talk.

Who doesn't?

It starts becoming an issue when I have to turn CTOFF to concentrate or read properly because the Divine in particular just refuses to shut up.

I wish the exact opposite! I want them to talk ALL the time! And take a hand in commune politics, and guild politics... And post heaps on the newsboards and zap random people..

Maybe I should be going to Celest

I want them to roleplay to a certain extent, but they shouldn't be forcing the players into roles a lot of us would rather not be in. When Eventru starts shouting smack about you, you can't respond because it'll likely be disrespectful and you can't ignore it because it makes you look weak. It's a lose-lose when you go up against the Divine.

I never turn channels off, but I have an alias that turns on gagging for them unless my name (or parts anyway, like moir or aine, since people don't often spell it right) appears, in which case I still see that line.

There's about a fifty fifty chance I'll have these trigs on, because your statement could apply to any and all groups, whether they be Divine or guttertrash(Hi Ruiku! ).

An ounce of disrespect just ends as a zapping, even paying attention to him in general is just going to get him to start a three-minute shoutfest that seems to never end. Force-feeding crap to people at the Pool of Stars goes a long way as far as roleplay and respect is concerned too.

(And people wonder why I get disgusted when they go '...Ooohhh my goodness I just saw a Divine in person!!!!')

Looking at you Eventru.

The situation you are talking about, RP it out. This was pretty much made for pot stirring political fun.

Edit: And honestly I don't think Divine have too much sway in politics unless they start endllessly zapping people when they are not listened to. Their say only holds weight in politics if people are going to listen to it and follow what they order.

I think this discussion is perfectly salutory so long as we steer away from what's actually annoyed Jozen, since that should be given the opportunity to play itself out in game.

That said, I thought I'd give my two cents.

A God's influence is very largely derived from his followers. I could walk around Magnagora ordering people to do my bidding, but the fact is that if people started saying 'No, stfu', I'd be screwed. The armoury of weapons at my disposal is actually quite light and I'm constrained by the necessity of not going too far. After all, you're our customers and the life blood of the game. It's vital that my actions are proportionate. Consequently, being a god requires a fair amount of political cunning. You can't put yourself in a position where you'll run up against a determined set of players, because ultimately you'll lose.

As an example, let's take the current alliance with Celest. Fain doesn't want it. Fain says a lot that he doesn't want it and Fain is ignored. Critically, I'm only having Fain pursue that stance on order channels (with a couple of minor exceptions). I'm not getting in open fights about it on CT. Why? Because OOCly I don't want to do Magnagora over, and OOCly I know I'll lose a lot of face in the process and piss off a lot of Magnagoran players. I have to reconcile that with my IC persona. It's not easy.

But if I back something which has a fair degree of support, particularly order support, then it's far more likely to happen because the players will make it happen. The backing of a God can lend momentum to a popular idea, but it won't help in a scenario where no players agree.

On my own, I have very limited control. I can only bully so far before a player pushes IC to one side and says - no, this is a game. And stfu.

Edit: Actually, Othero's edit more or less says everything in this post except more pithily. I obviously have taken far too long writing this.

This particular incident has numerous reasons from mutiple vantage points. My participation in it did not include any involvement from Fain or any other god. I was approached about it in entirely secular terms as a member of the iron council.

You might want to check it out a little more IC before you decry divine coercion.

I agree. I merely want a discussion, some thoughts about the hands of Divine in aspects of politics. I personally find it distasteful, however Jozen would never speak against his Lord.



There is an element of this regardless of how Llandros was invovled.

Othero does make a good point that it is a roleplaying campaign with the intent of raising a few eyebrows--and it has.

Moving back to the broader topic at hand (where we can benefit the most), I think that awareness and treading lightly with regards to certain "mortal" affairs/mechanics of the game should be a rather high concern for any Divine. All of them have done a rather marvelous job and I appreciate what they bring to the table when I play this game.

City politics dominated with blatant favoritism due to Order can leave a sour taste in people's mouth. And too much of this will slowly kill off "competing" Orders with the realization of the inherent disadvantages.