Lorick2009-09-15 04:37:07
Erm, I'm sorry if you are being forced to read? A page or two before last night.
Celina2009-09-15 04:37:40
I'm not stirring anything. I want you to back up what you are saying with hard facts. I've been in the position of people claiming I said something or took a stance I never did, and it's a lot harder to be in Vendetta's situation than it is to be the finger pointer. Vendetta can say "I didn't say that" all he wants, but the burden of proof is on him typically. So i'm shifting it to you and telling you to prove it.
Unknown2009-09-15 04:38:06
QUOTE (Celina @ Sep 14 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I want the exact post! I'm not sifting through 40 pages I wasn't involved in.
Post #713. I think #724 or 725 or so is relevant too.
Furien2009-09-15 04:38:42
*waits for Tekora*
Arix2009-09-15 04:42:12
Hello peoples.
Lorick2009-09-15 04:43:00
By your own omission you haven't read anything in the last 40 pages of arguement, and I don't have the patience to go back through it all. Essentially, Vendetta argued we should leave Kira alive once it was revealed through spell card and role claim who she was because the town needed her to defeat Mima. Which I called a pot of crock and we lynched the mafia grandfather. He also disappeared the night the human village was attacked, returned the day after stronger, and entered into a spell card battle with Kira in an attempt to prove role, however it is in the flavor post in the sing up that Reimu ends up leaving her cards. There are a few other minor points, like with the ying yang orbs, but those are minor.
Heh, if you aren't going to read it, please don't expect me to go back through it all. It isn't a long read, and it helps give a better opinion.
Heh, if you aren't going to read it, please don't expect me to go back through it all. It isn't a long read, and it helps give a better opinion.
Furien2009-09-15 04:44:41
To be honest, it was a somewhat plausible story. Very creative considering the circumstances. I was almost inclined to believe it myself if it wasn't for her going absolutely insane in the process, and her offering that little caveat halfway through our taking her down.
Unknown2009-09-15 04:45:47
If you have default posts-per-page, it's pages 36 and 37. There for all to see who want to know exactly what Lorick is (or isn't) talking about.
My chief concern that was if Yuka and Mima were not working together, Yuka might be able to kill Mima in the day time (assuming AtS was Mima) and take some of her powers for her own. How odd it is, then, that Mima's powers were already hers to use!
My chief concern that was if Yuka and Mima were not working together, Yuka might be able to kill Mima in the day time (assuming AtS was Mima) and take some of her powers for her own. How odd it is, then, that Mima's powers were already hers to use!
Celina2009-09-15 04:48:43
QUOTE (Vendetta Morendo @ Sep 11 2009, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When I revealed my identity at the beginning of Day 2, I was surprised not only that Kiradawea was Yuka instead of Mima, but also that Mima herself did not come after me.
Kiradawea has told us some interesting things. I'm not inclined to believe every word she says, but she's a practical youkai. She wouldn't just say things for the sake of saying them. I'm willing to believe that Medicine was her underling, hoping to expand her Suzuran field by granting Yuka assistance (though was ultimately expendable in Yuka's attempts to appear like a Townie). This would establish what the other win condition Medicine had might be, and that Yuka and Mima are indeed not working together.
I am beginning to think that Mima cannot act during the day time, to balance out her powerful presence during Twilight, and potentially during the Night (which we haven't really experienced in full yet).
It would stand, then, that Mima might have no spellcards, and therefore cannot initiate battles herself. However, this does not mean that challenging her is an instant win. Only that she can't start the fight. Mima is exceptionally powerful and it might be plausible to believe anyone that would challenge her would be destroyed in the process.
AtS, does this all sound familiar to you? Do you have any other explanations?
However, there is another side to the coin here. Since Kiradawea has her own agenda, she could know something useful about Mima. Do any of you think she would challenge Mima if her identity were revealed? Or has she known who Mima is for "some time", like she claims to have with me, and has reason to avoid her?
If Yuka can destroy Mima, she might gain some new power in the process, and we'd want to defeat Mima before she can... though without knowing if there's any special conditions that need to be met.
If Yuka cannot destroy Mima, then we don't have to rush the situation with reckless action.
What are we going to do?
Zynna, I think you must have at least one kind of potion left. The purple one doubles vote weight, the yellow one made you win a danmaku battle without really fighting back... what does the last one do, assuming you might have restrictions and options similar to Medicine's?
Kiradawea has told us some interesting things. I'm not inclined to believe every word she says, but she's a practical youkai. She wouldn't just say things for the sake of saying them. I'm willing to believe that Medicine was her underling, hoping to expand her Suzuran field by granting Yuka assistance (though was ultimately expendable in Yuka's attempts to appear like a Townie). This would establish what the other win condition Medicine had might be, and that Yuka and Mima are indeed not working together.
I am beginning to think that Mima cannot act during the day time, to balance out her powerful presence during Twilight, and potentially during the Night (which we haven't really experienced in full yet).
It would stand, then, that Mima might have no spellcards, and therefore cannot initiate battles herself. However, this does not mean that challenging her is an instant win. Only that she can't start the fight. Mima is exceptionally powerful and it might be plausible to believe anyone that would challenge her would be destroyed in the process.
AtS, does this all sound familiar to you? Do you have any other explanations?
However, there is another side to the coin here. Since Kiradawea has her own agenda, she could know something useful about Mima. Do any of you think she would challenge Mima if her identity were revealed? Or has she known who Mima is for "some time", like she claims to have with me, and has reason to avoid her?
If Yuka can destroy Mima, she might gain some new power in the process, and we'd want to defeat Mima before she can... though without knowing if there's any special conditions that need to be met.
If Yuka cannot destroy Mima, then we don't have to rush the situation with reckless action.
What are we going to do?
Zynna, I think you must have at least one kind of potion left. The purple one doubles vote weight, the yellow one made you win a danmaku battle without really fighting back... what does the last one do, assuming you might have restrictions and options similar to Medicine's?
QUOTE (Vendetta Morendo @ Sep 12 2009, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We can talk to Furien too, but what AtS let slip seems pretty bizarre and damning to me. If he ceases to talk to us altogether, I think we know what that means.
We potentially have Mima under the gun. We can't lynch both Mima and Yuka. Yuka might be able to defeat Mima with a spellcard battle like how Othero could kill Kaguya, and that could be a part of her win condition. Or, she can't defeat Mima without some special condition otherwise. If we lynch Yuka now, Mima might go all out on Twilight and Night. Unless Daganev can advance time again, this would be bad. Furthermore, are we even certain a lynch can kill Mima on our side?
I want to resolve this while keeping Town losses as low as possible. Can you see where I'm coming from?
I guess the other option is we could let Flandre out of the basement again. I don't know...
We potentially have Mima under the gun. We can't lynch both Mima and Yuka. Yuka might be able to defeat Mima with a spellcard battle like how Othero could kill Kaguya, and that could be a part of her win condition. Or, she can't defeat Mima without some special condition otherwise. If we lynch Yuka now, Mima might go all out on Twilight and Night. Unless Daganev can advance time again, this would be bad. Furthermore, are we even certain a lynch can kill Mima on our side?
I want to resolve this while keeping Town losses as low as possible. Can you see where I'm coming from?
I guess the other option is we could let Flandre out of the basement again. I don't know...
So...
What we have here is a little fib. If this is what Lorick was referring to, then I'm not seeing anything that is remotely "defending" Kiradawea. She states it very clearly that Kira is bad, she is simply speculating about what to do with her. I, for one, would have just lynched Kira, but considering what we know now (that Mima is a spirit possessing people, and not someone we can target directly), I don't know why speculation about Kiradawea's and Mima's powers is a bad thing.
I find her speculation about Mima not having spellcards and not being able to attack people to be interesting, because it has, in a round about way, turned out to be true.
So no, I do not buy that Vendetta was "defending" kiradawea, nor that this alleged defense should result in a lynch regardless of any other knowledge.
And YOU wanted to KEEP ME IN THE BASEMENT?!
Why the question about the thief? I didn't say anything regarding how I was let out.
Unknown2009-09-15 04:48:50
QUOTE (Lorick @ Sep 14 2009, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
however it is in the flavor post in the sing up that Reimu ends up leaving her cards.
Where?
Celina2009-09-15 04:50:23
Don't put words in my mouth, or I'll just erase you from reality and figure out who you are the quick and dirty way.
I never said I didn't read. I said I'm not going to read through thirty pages that tend to blur together because I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THEM to back up your finger pointing. That's your job. Hehehe
I never said I didn't read. I said I'm not going to read through thirty pages that tend to blur together because I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THEM to back up your finger pointing. That's your job. Hehehe
Furien2009-09-15 04:51:51
QUOTE (Celina @ Sep 14 2009, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't put words in my mouth, or I'll just erase you from reality and figure out who you are the quick and dirty way.
I never said I didn't read. I said I'm not going to read through thirty pages that tend to blur together because I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THEM to back up your finger pointing. That's your job. Hehehe
I never said I didn't read. I said I'm not going to read through thirty pages that tend to blur together because I WASN'T INVOLVED IN THEM to back up your finger pointing. That's your job. Hehehe
The thief issue was brought up because Serella certainly does not remember letting you out of her own free will.
Celina2009-09-15 04:53:02
It's oddly specific, is the problem.
Unknown2009-09-15 04:54:45
QUOTE (Lorick @ Sep 14 2009, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Heh, if you aren't going to read it, please don't expect me to go back through it all. It isn't a long read, and it helps give a better opinion.
Perhaps you might benefit from following your own advice.
Arix2009-09-15 05:09:35
Is tekora still around or did he go to bed?
Unknown2009-09-15 05:11:40
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch Vendetta, her speculations were more or less sound given the situation back then and what we knew (and didn't). I also doubt that there are two mafia factions, just that Mima's Followers all had alternate win conditions since they were possessed rather than willing followers; but interestingly, even though Kiradawea claimed that reflowering was another goal for her, she doesn't have any corresponding powers. So unless they were withheld, she was probably bluffing.
Recap:
(SP) = spellcard, (RC) = roleclaim, (FT) = flavour-text by Tekora, (AB) = ability or abilities used
(DA) = death by another's ability, (DL) = death by lynching
Claimed:
Vendetta Morendo - Reimu (SP)
Lorick - Reisen (RC, FT)
Serella - Remilia (RC)
Celina - Flandre (RC by way of Serella)
Daganev - Sakuya (SP, AB)
Othero - Mokou (SP)
Zynna - Eirin (SP, AB)
Llandros - Yuyuko (SP)
Xikue - Youmu (RC)
Kiradawea - Yuka (SP)
Shiri - Chen (SP, DA)
Solanis - Ran (SP, DA)
Renthur - Medicine (DL)
AllergictoSabres - Aya (RC)
Unclaimed:
Silferras - willing to battle
Arix - willing to battle
Zetsu - ze~
Furien - not Yukari
Shaddus - liching?
Going back to rolenames, we have Yukari and Kaguya not accounted for, and one inactive. No kills last night. Either Arix or Shaddus is Yukari, and one of Arix, Furien and Shaddus are Kaguya, given that Zetsu is Marisa. Was there concrete information that Mima needs time to transfer into another body and be able to nightkill, or do you think Shaddus was scum and simply hit the night deadline without sending in an action?
We need everyone active now to claim, so we can clear up the confusion and hopefully lynch scum today.
Recap:
(SP) = spellcard, (RC) = roleclaim, (FT) = flavour-text by Tekora, (AB) = ability or abilities used
(DA) = death by another's ability, (DL) = death by lynching
Claimed:
Vendetta Morendo - Reimu (SP)
Lorick - Reisen (RC, FT)
Serella - Remilia (RC)
Celina - Flandre (RC by way of Serella)
Daganev - Sakuya (SP, AB)
Othero - Mokou (SP)
Zynna - Eirin (SP, AB)
Llandros - Yuyuko (SP)
Xikue - Youmu (RC)
Kiradawea - Yuka (SP)
Shiri - Chen (SP, DA)
Solanis - Ran (SP, DA)
Renthur - Medicine (DL)
AllergictoSabres - Aya (RC)
Unclaimed:
Silferras - willing to battle
Arix - willing to battle
Zetsu - ze~
Furien - not Yukari
Shaddus - liching?
Going back to rolenames, we have Yukari and Kaguya not accounted for, and one inactive. No kills last night. Either Arix or Shaddus is Yukari, and one of Arix, Furien and Shaddus are Kaguya, given that Zetsu is Marisa. Was there concrete information that Mima needs time to transfer into another body and be able to nightkill, or do you think Shaddus was scum and simply hit the night deadline without sending in an action?
We need everyone active now to claim, so we can clear up the confusion and hopefully lynch scum today.
Furien2009-09-15 05:14:06
QUOTE (Silferras @ Sep 14 2009, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think it's a good idea to lynch Vendetta, her speculations were more or less sound given the situation back then and what we knew (and didn't). I also doubt that there are two mafia factions, just that Mima's Followers all had alternate win conditions since they were possessed rather than willing followers; but interestingly, even though Kiradawea claimed that reflowering was another goal for her, she doesn't have any corresponding powers. So unless they were withheld, she was probably bluffing.
Recap:
(SP) = spellcard, (RC) = roleclaim, (FT) = flavour-text by Tekora, (AB) = ability or abilities used
(DA) = death by another's ability, (DL) = death by lynching
Claimed:
Vendetta Morendo - Reimu (SP)
Lorick - Reisen (RC, FT)
Serella - Remilia (RC)
Celina - Flandre (RC by way of Serella)
Daganev - Sakuya (SP, AB)
Othero - Mokou (SP)
Zynna - Eirin (SP, AB)
Llandros - Yuyuko (SP)
Xikue - Youmu (RC)
Kiradawea - Yuka (SP)
Shiri - Chen (SP, DA)
Solanis - Ran (SP, DA)
Renthur - Medicine (DL)
AllergictoSabres - Aya (RC)
Unclaimed:
Silferras - willing to battle
Arix - willing to battle
Zetsu - ze~
Furien - not Yukari
Shaddus - liching?
Going back to rolenames, we have Yukari and Kaguya not accounted for, and one inactive. No kills last night. Either Arix or Shaddus is Yukari, and one of Arix, Furien and Shaddus are Kaguya, given that Zetsu is Marisa. Was there concrete information that Mima needs time to transfer into another body and be able to nightkill, or do you think Shaddus was scum and simply hit the night deadline without sending in an action?
We need everyone active now to claim, so we can clear up the confusion and hopefully lynch scum today.
Recap:
(SP) = spellcard, (RC) = roleclaim, (FT) = flavour-text by Tekora, (AB) = ability or abilities used
(DA) = death by another's ability, (DL) = death by lynching
Claimed:
Vendetta Morendo - Reimu (SP)
Lorick - Reisen (RC, FT)
Serella - Remilia (RC)
Celina - Flandre (RC by way of Serella)
Daganev - Sakuya (SP, AB)
Othero - Mokou (SP)
Zynna - Eirin (SP, AB)
Llandros - Yuyuko (SP)
Xikue - Youmu (RC)
Kiradawea - Yuka (SP)
Shiri - Chen (SP, DA)
Solanis - Ran (SP, DA)
Renthur - Medicine (DL)
AllergictoSabres - Aya (RC)
Unclaimed:
Silferras - willing to battle
Arix - willing to battle
Zetsu - ze~
Furien - not Yukari
Shaddus - liching?
Going back to rolenames, we have Yukari and Kaguya not accounted for, and one inactive. No kills last night. Either Arix or Shaddus is Yukari, and one of Arix, Furien and Shaddus are Kaguya, given that Zetsu is Marisa. Was there concrete information that Mima needs time to transfer into another body and be able to nightkill, or do you think Shaddus was scum and simply hit the night deadline without sending in an action?
We need everyone active now to claim, so we can clear up the confusion and hopefully lynch scum today.
Well, since AtS is a bit preoccupied, want to fight, froggy?
(Man, seeing that avatar for the first time was not disorienting in the slightest, I swear!)
Arix2009-09-15 05:14:40
Did you claim?
Unknown2009-09-15 05:14:49
Another possible unknown is Llandros, if his 'ploy' of using a supposedly non-indicating spellcard apparently worked out for him since Xikue can't confirm him role-wise.
Arix2009-09-15 05:15:12
That was directed at Silferras, not you
