You're right that it's not likely 1 org will get all 9 domoths. That's not what I am suggesting will happen. There will be a spread, but the people who end up with them after the first week or so of challenging/settling things out... will just keep them from then on, on the whole. At least with the current system there's some chance of them changing hands (even though they never did when Celest/Serenwilde fought together for every domoth, and don't now with Celest/Magnagora fighting together, at least there is the possibility for an upset).

Even with your note of "luck": -If- someone challenges based on hoping for a lucky roll, they'll just lose it right away when the other person challenges back. The thing about luck is that it can't be relied on. As such... I don't see a whole lot of people challenging hoping for a lucky shot just because they'll know it won't actually accomplish anything in the end.

Finally, we don't really have -that- many high-end combatants. Split them up amongst 9 Domoths and, well, they're not going to have opposition. Like I said, I think it will just encourage even more stagnation than we have now.

I don't think there will be that much stangation and I can count many more than 9 so called fighters amoung the game. And there would of course be timers on the challenge to prevent constant rechallenging. At least for that one particular domoth such as 'You have failed an attempt at usurping the Death Domoth too recently, its energies reject you as a challenger.' You could always challenge another. The point is to provide 1 on 1 combat for higher levels, if you are either being challenged or challening, thats a good thing.

Honestly, take Sidd as an example. He's someone who came around when Thoros, Sojiro and company were at the very top. He worked at it, became an Ascendant, and now he's up there with top. People will always come along and usurp the top spots from the people already there. If people can get to the point where they are so powerful that no one can beat them, that's a not a problem with 1 vs 1, that's a problem of game mechanics allowing such a character to exist.

Exactly. But we aren't provided the 1 on 1 chances to see these situations happen. Instead its always grouping. I also suggested that two of the domoths be either an influence contest or a debate contest to give noncoms a chance at it as well.

The problem with anything with meaningful consequences revolving around one v. one combat stems from our mechanics themselves.

We are not nearly refined enough in terms of one vs. one to make that sort of thing palatable. Melds, or lack thereof. Choke. Guardian/wiccan champion pets. Other abilities that massively and rapidly debilitate. How much room do you get to move in the one v. one? What's the local terrain start as? Knights in nondecaying fullplate with trans poisons. I would list monks, but the most recent changes haven't been out long enough to know if they're still the way they were.

One vs. one is a nice ideal, but it's all to easy to forget that, regardless of stated intent, we're not a particularly balanced game in that regard.

Limited small groups would probably be a better mix, or at least less problematic. Of course, we theoretically have this with wargames, and those aren't really slowing down the raids either.

Then again, we aren't really balanced in group combat either.

That is why you choose who you challenge. Not up to fighting a monk? Fight the Wiccan or Guardian instead. Think Warriors are your thing? The point is under the system of domoth, we would be able to detect skills and balances in classes because if one class beats all then we have a problem. The way I see it is that we have a very large rock paper scissors going on in most cases with some classes being able to take down others easily. Its a rough outline I think of what would be a better domothing system with better aspects for RP, being able to claim you were the domoth holder under your strength alone is a pretty nice thing especially if they introduced RP reward powers for each. Having powers tied to the Demigod that weren't dependent on order or city also makes it nice. I don't mind knights at all with trans poison, nor do I mind monks, or any other class for that matter. As much as I hate druids in their demense with sap or choke, its all part of the game with 1 on 1, you just have to learn to deal with it. I can guarantee, most fighters who truly enjoy the fight for the fight and not for the gank and lols would enjoy more 1 on 1 fighting where they feel they are evenly matched. We are talking top tier end game stuff here.

So wait you could just challenge noncoms for domoths if you didn't feel like a fight? :S

Noncom demigods could hold Justice or Harmony which could be 1 on 1 debating contests akin to the justice event or an influence contest where mobs spawn and you influence them. I wouldn't mind either, just offering a domoth available for noncoms. I am sure Viynain, Talan, or those others who just love to influence/debate would hold these and why shouldn't they, they are the best at what they do. Fighters would be too busy trying to focus on holding the combatant domoths, why would you put one of your best fighters up to hold a peaced domoth where they can't fight. I am sure I don't ever want to go against Talan or anyone else who actually regularly practices debating with my name on the line in a challenge against someone who makes a skill of influence/debating, just like there are those who don't want to go up against high-tiered combatants.

Wait, wait, wait. It was mentioned in the split part of this thread that Domoths are organizational benefits, not individual ones, which makes 1v1 for them seem kind of odd (given that they affect an org, and not the individual). Maybe add a domoth-like system (like what Romero's proposing), but have each one give a different effect, or the temporary dingbat-style-item idea? I know that I'd be intrested in temporary blimps to deliver things, or the ability to learn a language temporarily, or any number of RP benefits that it could provide.

I don't see this working with Domoths, though, given that Domoths give benefits to entire organizations. 1v1 fights for organizational benefits seems counter-intuitive to me.

Organizations already have revolts, planar raids (to the detriment of other orgs), and wildnodes to aid the org. Why not put a single fight into the hands of the solo Demigod/Ascendant. It makes prized fighters and influencers that much more valuable when they actually do something for their team in a solo situation rather than just lead the horde.

I didn't read all of this thread, just the first few pages. But I saw a lot of 'More 1 v 1 combat!' in those pages.

Why not implement something like Achaea's assassin/champion mark system? You can become a "mark" and fight and kill any other marks at any time, anywhere.

Because this game is balanced around group fighting. :/ There are classes that are in ways superior to every other class in a 1v1 fight. Boo-hiss.

Which classes? I don't think thats the case at all. There are some -abilities- that are superior to plenty of others but I don't think one class necessarily just outright trumps all others.

Yeah you're right, and usually it's the skilled players. Narsrim and Ceren seem to be able to make any class they want work. Jerks.

Ardmore: Solution for those wanting to fight without the soul-crushing raids that happen fairly often.

Narsrim is most definitely not sitting in a 1v1 advantaged guild right now. You're right, though. Silly monks.

Anyways, to get this back on track, I think any solution that limits who shows up to a fight is going to either increase raiding or decrease outlet for casual PvP, both of which will cause frustration down the road for lots of people. 1v1 domoths are a bad idea for that reason, even if people generally want more 1v1 PvP action. Domoths are too exclusive for that to be the ideal 1v1 outlet anyways.

Another option might be to mechanically encourage picking fights you're unlikely to win. Arena combat rankings don't play out well because you can pick and choose your opponents. If something similar could be pushed out into the world at large, you could get impromptu combat in any of the planar areas.

Quick illustration:

Players can progress through combat ranks by consistently beating people of their rank or higher. To blatantly rip off WoW's terminology for a moment, we'll call these honorable kills. Losing to someone your rank or lower or killing someone below your rank runs the risk of dropping your rank. Higher ranks are incentivized so as to encourage people to try to gain rank (and thus give a degree of control over who fights who). People who die in enemy territory are treated as though they are one rank higher than they are. There are no dishonorable kills within your org's own territory, regardless of enemy status. There are no honorable kills among people of the same city or commune. Points reset upon gaining a new rank. Players move one point closer to zero each Sunday.

Rank 0: All new players start here. True non-combatants.

Rank 1: Anyone who kills another player, regardless of circumstances, is granted rank 1. If you remain at zero points for twenty weeks, you get pushed back to rank 0.

Honorable kills give points based on the opponent's rank. Rank 1 is worth 1 point, rank 2 is worth 4 points, rank 3 worth 9, and so on. A player will advance to rank 2 at 30 points.

Dishonorable kills (which, for rank 1, is really only the rank 0 non-combatants) give -2 points. Losing to someone of rank 0 or 1 also gives -2 points, but will not drop your score below 0. Points cannot drop below -30, but if a player kills a rank 0 player and his points otherwise would have dropped below -30, the player gets a highdisfavor from an administrative entity for 24 hours.

Rank 2: Rank 2 still has no incentive, but is the start of the people who can be acknowledged as fighters. Dropping to -30 will send you back to rank 1. Gaining 50 points moves you to rank 3.

Honorable kills work on a similar scale. Rank 2 is worth 1 point, rank 3 is worth 4 points, rank 4 is worth 9, and so on. Losing to someone of your rank is -2, rank 1 is -4, rank 0 is -6. Unlike rank 1, losing to someone below your rank will drop you below 0 points.

Dishonorable kills will get you pushed out of the rankings in a hurry. Killing someone of rank 1 is -4, killing someone of rank 0 is -27.

Rank 3: Rank 3 is the first incentivized rank. Players of rank 3 get an artifact that grants some minor benefit, such as +2% to mob damage or level 1 faster herb balance. Points are given same as above: honorable kills give (difference in rank + 1) ^ 2, losing is (difference in rank + 1) * 2, dishonorable kills are (difference in rank + 1) ^ (difference in rank + 1).

-30 drops you back to rank 2. 70 points moves you to rank 4.

Rank 4: Solid combatants get solid rewards for their time invested and willingness to forgo griefing. This could be an increased benefit, such as +5% to mob damage, or a couple minor benefits, such as +2% to mob damage and level 1 herb bonus. Points as above, 90 to get rank 5.

Rank 5: Top tier! The artifact awarded at this level is substantial, such as level 1 balance and eq recovery. Each month, rank 5 points are reset to 0. The player with the most points at the end of the month is given an honors line and some sort of temporary bonus.

====

As an end result of this, people who enjoy casual PK would gain more by taking it to Astral rather than raiding. It would also somewhat discourage policing Prime hunting grounds with NPC enemy statuses by much better combatants. It might also discourage orgs from sending real newbies up to defend in raids for fear of them hitting rank 1 and becoming a potential PK farm for beginning fighters.

Overall, the idea is not a bad idea. However this line bugs me a bit. This would destroy any RP related executions or killings for players that are annoying.

That would address most RP executions; they tend to take place in the city/commune. Not sure how frequent the exceptions are.

It seems sound, though I've never been a fan of such strict regulation. Even the Avenger and whatnot bug me.

People moan and groan without all that stuff in place, but as we can see putting it in place doesn't exactly change anything.