So develop that attitude, because that's the best way to go. They are, as Estarra pointed out, a flavor reward for something you'd do anyway. That they can guard at all is just topping.

Also, I understand that a certain number of them respawn on their own. Someone mentioned that before.

Edit: Never mind.

The trick is finding a way to spread that attitude to other people. There's no good IC argument I can make that says we should stop caring about people murdering incarnations of one of our Great Spirits. Ultimately, this has to be one of those things where we all turn a blind eye to our roleplay and hope no one objects, like we used to about Faethorn. And that's innately fragile: even a simple utterance by one of the gods will break it, as will any event that nudges people, and even a few stubborn players in positions of authority can tear it down. (On the other hand, Lisaera could achieve this with a few sentences. Not that I'm saying she should, but it'd be so easy for her and so nearly-impossible for me.)


Just the few that are nominal guards for the Avatars, none of the ones that are called up by bringing in fae.

Has it been suggested yet that Greatpent act like lesser pent, and any aggressive acts by the person inside it cause it to drop?

A few random points:

The daughters/ladies issue is associated with this thing, but is sort of its own animal. Certainly, the comparison to angels and demons is, apart from the most utterly myopic analysis, a very poor one if only because Angels and Demons replenish at zero effort. The problem here is cost to effort. The cost of raising a daughter/lady is a fair amount of time, even risk. The cost to kill one is a few seconds, often while abusing great pent. The ratio is out of whack, especially compared to angels and demons, which would come back even if nobody from the org was logged on.

So, this ratio needs to be addressed. Make daughters/ladies much, much, much, much, much, much easier to obtain, or make them so that the cost to kill them respects the cost it took to raise them.


Secondly, I agree with Esano that there should be a truly neutral area to fight (that isn't a freaking bashing ground)- but it is critical that such an area not also become a shooting gallery for novices. Of course, the real problem with such an area boils down to the wild imbalance in combatant levels at any given time. If they opened the area now, and say, Mag wanted to fight, why on earth would Seren respond? More specifically, at this point, who would even respond? "Hey Xiel, come up to the neutral fighting spot so you can be spammed with ecto and crucify by four people for the next four hours" probably wouldn't be particularly inticing a prospect.

If you try to create incentives, it either winds up being mandatory, or the nature of the incentive stacks the deck even further of the side currently on top. In addition, the hardest raiding usually seems aimed at whatever org least defend itself. Certainly, there are players who seem to truly love combat- but on observation there are at least as many, if not more, who would much rather kick orphans down stairs put a little tic mark in the "W" column.


Ultimately, what I would like to see is a way for orgs currently under the wheels of the game to reach some mechanical threshhold where they can just seal themselves off. I think this is the way to go. It would keep already "losing" orgs from feeling like the other parties get to come into their locker room after losing the fight and slam their head into the wall until they get bored of doing so. It would be much less depressing if there was some real breathing room to let them shore up defenses, replenish ladies/daughters, and probably most importantly, not feel like just not logging in because their entire play time revolves around someone else beating them up.

Obviously, an org in this state is naturally going to be unable to mount any real reciprocal attacks of meaning almost by the nature of the thing, but if necessesary, the offense of a "shielded" org could be inhibited.

No. It has always been our policy to treat all players equally, regardless of their purchases.

I vote we make Ladies/Daughters the same strength as angels/demons (read: weak, reduce their hindering afflictions, etc) and make them reset. They should also cost power if they are destroyed although it should be a low amount like that of angels and demons.

Communes don’t like the hassle of summoning them and Cities don’t like the hassle of dealing with them in large numbers (hence they keep them dead). Win/win? Of course, I’m sure there are some people who want super Ladies/Daughters that reset, but you can’t have your cake and eat it too! If you want power, you pay for it. If you want resetting garbage denizens, so be it.

Agree.

@akui: I'm sorry to hear the people in Serenwilde that call themselves "combatants" don't like to/can't handle fighting.

Totally agree. I really don't mind resetting mobs either. Raiders don't come to kill mobs. They kill mobs to lure out defenders so that they can fight and if you take too long to come out, they all die. If you would like to have resetting mobs that drain your power on each death of them, so be it. You can operate at more of a loss.

The current system is really a bonus to you, if there are no daughters to kill there is no way to lure out defenders and nothing for the raiders to do on your plane, thus not keeping them coming to you or attacking you.

I'm pretty sure Estarra will say no to making L/D identical to A/D, because it's a unique-factor. However, we can also:

I certainly wouldn't have a problem with ladies/daughters being equivalent to angels/demons. That would address the problem, which is the effort to create/effort to destroy ratio of them. They're much harder to create than destroy, unlike angels/demons, which are mathmatically infinitely easy to create.

That said, it feels like it was said somewhere that such will not be the case. So probably back to tweaking the ratio after all.

...also, is this part of the discussion spin-offish enough to warrant it's own thread?

I like most the idea of doing two things at once to fix the problem.

FIRST, create an outlet for people to pvp in small groups when bored. 2 vs 2 etc.
For this, I think the semi-domoth idea is best. (rather than the arena, cause the arena "doesn't count") As for a backstory, I think you can have people "discover" entrance to the spirit plane, without doing the toscha quest. On this plane, there are spirit challenges, that are intended for individuals to train and "awaken the vernal inside of them." When the challenge is complete, they get a "taste" of being a vernal god (meaning, some sort of rp buffs, e.ge. auras, emotes etc.) for x amount of hours back when they are on prime plane only.

After that is done, create supermobs that are just guardians or "bodyguards" of the important targets, so that it's not feasible for 1-3 people raid an enemy on thier own.

I remember enjoying a lot of the spontaneous world PvP in WoW. There was a this arena, and every 3 hours an NPC comes and drops a chest in the middle of it. If you want to open the chest you basically have to kill everybody else who may want it. Maybe we could have some gnome come down every once in awhile, start up some kinda of random FFA or wargames in Klangratch and offer present boxes as a reward, though ones that wouldn't contain any artifacts or dingbats and such, but no junk stuff like a bunch palettes or have a dozen assorted vials either.

Looks like this thread needs to be cleaned up a bit to remain on topic...

Stop the bickering. Get this thread back on track.

Thanks!

I have listed three options to tone down the raiding while still focusing largely on combat.

Global challenges that are issued at some major cost (perhaps once per day per player, another channel that could be turned off if you don't wish to see it) so that way people can see others challenge when they are insulted or something. People who constantly talk crap but never want to fight could be challenged globally and announced. If they back out or refuse to fight, its on them and provides bragging rights.

Make Domoths 1 on 1 events between Demigod/Ascendants for late game play. We have wildnodes, revolts, regular raiding, and events for large groups. Make it so 1 domoth per Demigod/Ascendant, you cant't hold another if you hold 1 already. Thoros challenges Romero for the Domoth of Death, I have 5 minutes to respond to the challenge or 10, whatever you like. 3 denials of a challenge forfeits the throne. You go to the Domoth, fight it out. Winner takes the throne. 1 on 1 good old fashion PK, and gasp, you might actually get to see how balanced skills are in 1 on 1 combat. Give domoth holders an RP flavored ability beyond the blessings so that way domoth of life can rezz, domoth of chaos can racechange or something fun like that to add to the flavor of being a domoth holder.

Make combat spar challenges deduct points of refused, granting them to the challenger if the person refuses to fight. People who have won combat rankings aren't really fighters most of the time nor are they top ranked, they just wait for it to reset, fight some friends, get points, and then refuse to fight again. If combat spars could be issued globally to someone and would be required to be answered, then you could have a good private combat situation going on.

None of this requires closing down planes, or a new avenger. It opens up new combat venues for people at the expense of no one.

Suggestion: Tournaments, allow tier fighters, by might, by wins, however it is decided, host tournaments monthly or daily, you get little tokens where you can buy dingbat like items for 1 or 2 days, but you're limited to like 3 items.

That would get a lot of people interested in fighting, but allow seperate tiers, low, medium, high tier fighters.

I will be moving all non related posts into a thread called "my raid is better than your raid", if you want you can continue those conversations there.

As I said above, this just won't work. Thoros will get a domoth and will just never lose it. Same with Sojiro, Desitrus. 9 people will have Domoths, the top 9 combatants, and nobody else will even bother trying. You're not going to get more fighting changing it to this kind of system, just more stagnation.

Also: 1v1 against Ceren in an unbreakable Geo meld?

I seriously doubt that notion. Sure the top combatants will gain their domoths and hold them. That is the point of being a top combatant. But you can't tell me there is seriously no one in this game who can't beat Thoros? I know I have seen Sidd beat him a few times. And you can't tell me no one can beat Desitrus or Shuyin. Even just by luck sometimes its possible. The 'top' always compete with the top and you will have others come up and others fall. Not to mention it could fade after some time if the person didn't log in too much. I know that Thoros and I always give each other a run for money.

I highly ever doubt that one org will muster all 9 domoths without having 9 of the best fighters in game.