This thread wouldn't be complete without another off-hour back and forth eh Shaddus?

That makes no sense. Plus it's not really off-hours (I think).

Detecting whopping non-sequitur.

Why would the thread be closed because of that, exactly? Nope, that doesn't make the arguments moot. In fact, given Maglest's habits, that's log would mean nothing to them, right?

Doesn't make sense to close the thread but it does make a point that a lot of people seem to be making. I was around then and it was obviously one sided. Glomdoring went to slay guards when Magnagora had no one who could really stop who was around. It's just pushing the point that lots of people are making, raiders don't really care much about a fair fight. They do things to get a raise out of people. In this case I'm sure they were waiting for someone to post that they killed off guards.

Hmm that's not really off hours... IT's late, but it's not wee hours of the morning when noone is awake.

There's a pretty big difference here. This "raid" took all of two or three minutes with nobody getting killed. It's also something that isn't going to really inconveniance anyone. No hours spent influencing fae, no pk, not an two or three hour on everyone's game experience. Mind you, I'm not saying that that's the standard a raid should hold to- hence my stating "raid" to begin with.

Really, it can't even be called off hours given that the time that happened is generally around the time that we get hit by the cities one way or another.

I popped in for a few minutes to see how things were, since that was the time cities usually ran through Ethereal. Lo and behold, the city raiders were not there and we were the one raiding!

So, yes. Sucks to be on the other side of the line.

The "raid" was me wandering around questing, walking into the wrong village, getting wtfpwnt by guards, and Celina suggesting we take out the dozen guards stationed in the wilds.

Are you kidding It was 6am for me. I demand that you raid when it is convenient for me.

Nobody cares about the time in England... Except Shiri... and he uses slippers for avatars... soooooo

I'm going to call foul on this. If you call it off-hours when we raid you, it's off-hours when it's you raiding us too. You can't have it the way that suits you each time and try to take the moral high ground. If you're going to use the excuse "but, you have the people to raid us at this time!", well, lo and behold, any raids we make at this time are no longer off-hours because you had the people to raid us. It has to work both ways, see? Else it doesn't work at all.

Not that I really care that much - probably the only people that would is the poor influencers (of which Mag has few) who missed out on that small guardclot for the time it was down. Although they're not in the wilds, they're in Angkrag, and the mountain villages almost always have a decent cadre of guards (didn't Seren have 50+ in Rockholm at one point?). Glance before taking random exits into villages or lava, Sadhyra!

lol, why do you act surprised. they piss and moan about geeting beat down and then do something to get it some more so they can... bitch some more when they get owned again.

Call foul on what exactly? If you go through the posts on the thread, the complaints are largely aimed at duration of city raids. In other words, the hours long hit and running. What happened wasn't a sustained attack that cost a lot of people time, resources, or experience. As has been posted by others, cities raid for an extended period of time. Communes, traditionally, don't. Of course, there are always exceptions.

Notice that there were no complaints of loss of anything beyond the guards? Was there a camping of Angkrag? Any ganking of those that did come by? No, because we hit the target and left.

Sure there has been a more or less grey area that most people can agree is the off-hours. That being the time when the population is generally the lowest throughout the game. Maglest has capitalized on that grey area more and more recently and I'm not even faulting them for it, really. Again, the feeling I'm getting is more the duration and frequency of raiding rather than time at this point (though certainly that's a factor).

So in summary, did I even call off-hours? No. Shaddus did.

Maglest sounds so.... wrong. Can we please use a different word-combo? Like Celesagora?

Celagora (or maybe Magnalest) sounds better. I thought we already called it Magnalest.

Wait why did Glom kill Mag guards? I thought Estarra was trying to nerf raiding cuz Glomdoring just got their asses kicked into submission and were crying about it and now they are going to raid and get their asses kicked further and cry more? Wtf.

I believe the complaints were actually in large part from Serenwilde, given the log of a God's question on CT from over there. And their referendum.

At least, the complaints that got the Admin interested in talking about it. Once it's out here, complaints from all sides have been aired.

No way only gloms whine we wish we could be like big bad mag who sucked it up and didnt whine themselves a few months ago

Of course they did not. Estarra also didn't post a thread about conflict then, either, I'm sure.

Oh. Wait.