I doubt Estarra's concerned with disingenous technicalities. When the power minister specifically suggests not summoning them and never retracts it, and you live in a place like Serenwilde where giving the faintest impression of maybe not wholly agreeing with such things is precisely as good as being caught red-handed in overt violations of written law, the fact that no one has summoned a single one since the day we were told not to seems like no coincidence to me. In any case, I retract the reference to policy. They're not banned. We just can't and don't use them.

(Incidentally, after the adjustment was made, there was subsequent discussion in SEG and it was still agreed by several present, including the Marshall, that they still wouldn't be effective and shouldn't be used. For what that's worth. I wonder if a coalition of lowbies operating guardians and coordinating the timing of their attacks might not be a pretty unstoppable fighting force... but it doesn't matter. We never have five of those any more than we have five actual fighters, anyway.)

I'd say for warriors, with the way damage and wounding works now, demigod or a VERY high strength (able to get to at least 19+) race is a requirement to combat anyone with a system. Otherwise, it seems nearly impossible to outpace curing in any meaningful way.

Edit: Or arti weapons. How did I forget about that?

my poor grammar comes from me replying on a cell phone and not a desktop. when i say "bard nerfs" i mean bard nerfs. honestly, think before you speak because you only make yourself look like a dumbass. common sense is all that is required, you dont have to run, if you dont get hit you wont die. hard concept to grasp yes i know.

The only part of this that is correct is the "don't use them" There has never been once said you cannot use them. The power minister (Aiyana) has never said you can't use them. She said due to the 400 power to summon them it is recommended to use your other nexus powers instead cause they do more. Even then she never said "You can't use them"

As for what Estarra is concerned with, I am not correcting Estarra. I am correcting your statement to Estarra about Guardians. Since you told her that Serenwilde "can't" summon them, therefore implying in our case they are not useful, you are wrong.

The fact certain members of Serenwilde cannot distinguish the word "recommend" from the word "banned" is clearly something certain members of the Serenwilde should invest in a dictionary over.

Can we get back on topic or is this turning into a rant rage thread?

i was wondering the same thing, it seems people get too hurt when another points out false statements.

No one is attempting to make combat inaccessible. If anything I want more fighters on all sides so that way the numbers try to even out. The matter is finding the class that makes you comfortable. I picked Nihilist for RP reasons, as I said I came into the game not of being a PKer but cause I liked the lore and wanted to bash since I was tired of RP drama on another game. I didn't have squads while leveling up or good aetherhunting and influencing had just got popular and I did it at the last 2 or 3 levels. I didn't buy credits, I didn't get artifacts, I wrote bardics, participated in contests in game and had a few people willing to sell me credits that I could pay off over time with gold and scavenged gold to buy at the ridiculous prices.

I am always willing to help or answer questions or practice fight with people though I think I am far from best, combat is in part building up confidence in your abilities and to be honest I got that confidence off a pretty lame kill against a demigod. Soullessing Rika once on prime as a level 80ish made me realize Demis fall just the same as nondemis. After that I just kept trying against Melville, Vathael, Esano, Thoros, Incabulos, Desitrus, Sidd, Lekius, Narsrim (not saying these people are the best, just who I learned alot from). I still remember days where Dysolis and even Vashner (who I think considers himself a noncom) among many others would kick my face in. I don't think anyone has a problem answering questions on combat save a select few, from what I have seen of Shuyin or Sidd, they behave just the same. I know Veyrzhul will talk about his multiple class experiences.

also as far as warriors and strength goes. i only have 22 str. aliod for example has 21 str and not demi, melville has 19 str and is demi and no arties. like i said, its all in how you go about the fight.

Believe what you like. The point originally made stands, your quiddities aside. Got something to add that's actually relevant to what Estarra's asking about, or must we endure more pointless political posturing? Which normally I couldn't care less about, Gregori playing quiddities for political posturing on the forum is hardly news, but it's getting in the way of something that matters this time.

I can get to 21 as well, it's just much harder for some races that were made for warriors cannot get anywhere near that.

Okay, let's try to stay focused. I have two questions that really haven't been answered:

1) Does anything more need to be done to dilute the current conflicts/raiding? And if so what? (We did address the hai'Gloh/Xion Initiative quests so I'm not sure why anyone would say they're off limits. In any event, since neither are even up now, it seems they are strawmen when it comes to the current conflict cycle.)

2) Are demigods too powerful? If so, what should be done to bring them in line?

Concrete suggestions will be listened to!

I will take this as an admission of being wrong.

@Estarra

As for Guardians themselves, there hasn't been a case in Serenwilde where their usefulness could be put to the test. No long raids or even large raids. It has merely been one or two people who may or may not hide behind Great Pentagram coming in and kill ladies then leave as fast as they can.

I am sure if a real raid (more than 1 person evading everyone) was to happen and we had the people to make use of a couple Guardians they would be useful though.

And this is one of the reasons that I stay. Admins willing to listen to players.

The demigod argument is a scapegoat. It isn't demigods that are the problem. It is Demigod warriors with artifact runes. The damage output they can deal is just way overbalanced compared to anyone else.

It has been brought up many times that warrior damage should not exceed 25% of max health per combo and we are seeing cases of one - two shot kills.

Edit:: For example I am a demigod. I can't damage kill (moonburst) anyone over 3k health in 3 hits. There are warriors out there doing this in 2.
It is the combination of high strength as a demigod and runes causing unbalanced damage outputs. Most demigod warriors with no runes are just fine.

Demigods are not too powerful. Warriors and Monks who do damage and afflictions might be, but affliction classes like mine still have problem taking down others, even novices because I can't hinder movement with paralyze and massive damage ever 2-3 seconds on strike. Instead I get 8 second shackles or active web which means I am not inflicting damage. Even a mediocre fighter with a decent system can cure my aeon and run off because I can't really afflict and damage too much. Contagion sure, just leave the room. Carcer new eq means they have like 5 or 6 seconds to get past the carcer. But I love my class and like it as is. Warriors have that advantage, bards, druids, wiccans, all have their own sort just like my class does but I think caster classes are always at a disadvantage when it comes to not having a passive way to really break shields like raze, even a novice shield spamming is seriously going to either stop me or ruin my attacks. I am not too powerful based off being Demigod alone but simply that Demigods tend to accrue the best items/artifacts/equipment.

I would like someone who is considered a serious combatant who is a non-demi to voice up and say if they have trouble killing Demis. Nienla seems to do just fine, Sidd did just as fine as well before he was ascended, I managed it just the same as a non-demi. The difference is mentality in real combatants vs those who do it lesiurely. They will always be at that disadvantage. Don't nerf Demigod simply on that merit alone.

Also I agree with Romero, affliction classes are pretty much useless these days. To many ways to cure any 1 affliction means that all you are left with is damage kills, meaning the warriors faceroll people with damage and people get the wrong impression that demigods (because all the facerolling warriors are demigods) are too powerful. Afterall, nobody else facerolls them!

I know that it's been said before that Demi doesn't matter for affliction classes, but it does make a huge difference for classes that rely on/need stats somewhere (which mainly seems to be strength for knights). So while for Nienla or you, Demigod won't mean a thing, it can make a nice difference for someone who goes through 3k health in a single swing because they can get 25 strength. I'm sure there are quite a few people who want weapon stats to mean more for warrior combat.

I would like to get rid of divinefire, or at least make its use purely for bashing.

Demigods are definitely a problem, warrior or not.

Are you implying that my decision to be a mugwump warrior is a terrible blunder?!?! :P

for me, it isn't that demigod is too powerful or maybe it is. I mean, I would get slaughtered on either character I have right now. One is 54, the other is about 32-33. Neither will be much help in raids, because the chance of me dying is more or less 99%. One, because I'm rather low level (despite being tri-trans'd on one) and two I've got no system and seriously am incapable of fighting in combat due to the fact it is so -fast paced-. I can't read the scrolling words to get even an idea of what the hell I need to do. So I found out pretty quickly I was SOL in terms of combat unless I got a system, and could effectively read the screen I can't do anything except maybe try spamming my skills ineffectively. Now that is my personal experience with combat, so I highly doubt I'll ever try it again because I know I fail epicly.

Now, to be general about combat. I mean this is no offense, but a lot of the people posting about combat itself are among the top tiers, some of the "best." Personally I'd prefer hearing from the people who aren't among the top combants, the "lowbies" who are just getting onto the combat scene or "middle grounders" instead of those who are amazing at combat. While yes, they are the majority of those at top tier, it is time to stop listening to them and listen to the little people about combat. It -needs- to be brought down, imho. You have such a high bar and it makes really hard for others to climb up. This is something that has been said so many times, I'd think it would've been a clicked something in your head. Unfortunately I haven't tried Guardians so I can't make a comment about that, and I probably won't.