Lorick2009-09-30 10:30:23
Shiri, why the switch the Celina? You essentially went from voting for me because you knew about me to voting for someone you don't know much about (Nameclaim anyone?) and who has kill resistance for little more reason than going with momentum. You aren't the type to be so easily influenced normally. What changed?
Unknown2009-09-30 11:18:27
Does a name claim actually mean anything here? Unless your name happens to be that of a returning character, which doesn't sound like it would be helpful for anyone who's stepped up to talk about their roles thus far.
Shiri2009-09-30 11:58:39
QUOTE (Lorick @ Sep 30 2009, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Shiri, why the switch the Celina? You essentially went from voting for me because you knew about me to voting for someone you don't know much about (Nameclaim anyone?) and who has kill resistance for little more reason than going with momentum. You aren't the type to be so easily influenced normally. What changed?
Nothing, actually. I'm still ok with voting you in. I'm just also inclined to believe that Celina is town at the moment. There IS the concern I stated to Daganev that scum could have limited kill resist, but overall he's got a point about that part. And the momentum was with Celina and for SOME REASON (*check page length*) I massively overestimated the time this game had been going on until Daganev pointed it out.
Lorick2009-09-30 13:43:25
Well, let me put it this way. The momentum was with Celina, but very resistant with Othero and me. We know much less about Celina, yet somehow she has so many votes. That would be much easier to accomplish with the backing of a scum group. What is your opinion on that?
Shiri2009-09-30 14:09:25
People being wary of you flipping out like last game probably has something to do with it. Plus your panicking everyone with this necromancy stuff. I don't think we need to necessarily put that one down to collusion.
Lorick2009-09-30 14:47:32
Fair enough, but at least Othero had something to suggest he was town outside of powers which neither Celina nor I have done. Yet people are unwilling to elect him. How about this, why not switching our votes to Othero? People whom wanted you in the office should have no problem with that it would be acceptable for me since I'm fairly certain at this point he doesn't have a second motive. If you put strong enough a stance on it they would follow you like always, and you yourself had said we would gain nothing by killing him and that you have suspicions he is in the fellowship.
Daganev2009-09-30 15:13:35
Allright, Here is my new suggestion. (sorry you feel I'm not reading Reqium.. I just find too many problems with your "infinitely better" plan. The biggest problem of which is that you are advocating mass murder for the sake of YOU feeling safer)
Othero, by his claim, has essentially made himself a non lynch target. Nobody is going to want to put the hammer on him. Let's just vote Othero leader, and WHEN THE TIME COMES, let the vig or scum kill him, as the game requires.
Nominate Othero Leader
Basically, because of Othero's claim, currently nobody is going to want to put the final vote on to lynch him. So he is essentially, unlyncahble. There is 1. No reason to have two unlynachable people. 2. There is no reason to commit mass murder at this point.
The reason again, why I say Req's plan is so stupid, is because if soemone is willing to VOLUNTEER to get killed, then they either are immortal (unlikely) or NOT SCUM! Which means, If they go through with the plan, we learn nothing new. It's only when they at the end decide to NOT kill themselves, that we then lynch them. Either way, there are better ways of finding scum and not killing townies.
Req, if you are using such strong logic, then I'm going to have to assume you are scum or non-town of some sort, and recommend lynching you. Because save some alterior motive that you arn't telling us about, your plan for killing people who are suppposed to be usefulll to us, is just not logical.
Othero, by his claim, has essentially made himself a non lynch target. Nobody is going to want to put the hammer on him. Let's just vote Othero leader, and WHEN THE TIME COMES, let the vig or scum kill him, as the game requires.
Nominate Othero Leader
Basically, because of Othero's claim, currently nobody is going to want to put the final vote on to lynch him. So he is essentially, unlyncahble. There is 1. No reason to have two unlynachable people. 2. There is no reason to commit mass murder at this point.
The reason again, why I say Req's plan is so stupid, is because if soemone is willing to VOLUNTEER to get killed, then they either are immortal (unlikely) or NOT SCUM! Which means, If they go through with the plan, we learn nothing new. It's only when they at the end decide to NOT kill themselves, that we then lynch them. Either way, there are better ways of finding scum and not killing townies.
Req, if you are using such strong logic, then I'm going to have to assume you are scum or non-town of some sort, and recommend lynching you. Because save some alterior motive that you arn't telling us about, your plan for killing people who are suppposed to be usefulll to us, is just not logical.
Daganev2009-09-30 15:38:14
Also requium, just something for you to think about.... unless you are scum, being able to sway the group is not something you should want/be happy about. The point is to get rid of the threat to the town, not sway the town in some random direction just because you want to.
If anything, swaying the town would put doubt in my mind, if people are following me blindly, or because the group decides it is the right direction to take. But I don't think I'm as charasmatic as you say I am, because just about every game that I'm not scum, people think I am. And people disagree with me often enough when I'm wrong.
If anything, swaying the town would put doubt in my mind, if people are following me blindly, or because the group decides it is the right direction to take. But I don't think I'm as charasmatic as you say I am, because just about every game that I'm not scum, people think I am. And people disagree with me often enough when I'm wrong.
Unknown2009-09-30 15:56:01
You know what, Dag, you're right. I thought it would be fun to play with old friends, but the way you guys play mafia just isn't for me anymore. I understand why people like Quidgyboo quit playing years ago. You guys completely fail to grasp any sort of advance tactics or strategy. And again, I suspect it's because of the timeframe involved in forum games, but losing a townie for the good of the town itself is not a scummy suggestion. Especially when we probably have 3-4 more game days before we have to lynch mafia to avoid losing.
Also, it was only a suggestion, like all of the other suggestions I had. If no one likes them, we don't have to do them. I was thinking out loud and trying to provide something from my unique frame of reference. Again, that's a pro-town move, not a scum move. Despite what Lorick thinks about hyper-aggressive scum, mafia always benefits from not drawing attention to themselves.
Un-nominate Celina
Nominate Requiem
Unvote Othero
Elect me and I'll kill Othero. If you're soooo insistent that I'm mafia, then I won't be any help to town anyway. We might as well remove me while town can afford to mislynch.
Also, it was only a suggestion, like all of the other suggestions I had. If no one likes them, we don't have to do them. I was thinking out loud and trying to provide something from my unique frame of reference. Again, that's a pro-town move, not a scum move. Despite what Lorick thinks about hyper-aggressive scum, mafia always benefits from not drawing attention to themselves.
Un-nominate Celina
Nominate Requiem
Unvote Othero
Elect me and I'll kill Othero. If you're soooo insistent that I'm mafia, then I won't be any help to town anyway. We might as well remove me while town can afford to mislynch.
Unknown2009-09-30 16:03:06
A couple last things.
Lorick is the serial killer. I'm calling it now. I've posted a couple times that Bali expressed how uber-cool he thought it would have been if the serial killer had gotten the leadership position. He also said last time that he didn't like the leadership thing because of how it made the town play. Yet it's magically back again to torture us a second time.
Lorick's swiss army knife claim seems pretty reminiscent of the SK from last game, including his hyper-enthusiasm to be investigated without even allowing the possibility of having Godfather innocence. He's also been pushing hardcore for leadership from the very beginning. Notice how NONE of the real town ever seriously attempted it? Even Celina, for whom I lobbied because I saw her as a better option than Lorick, never really tried to get elected herself.
I think Bali designed the serial killer with some sort of incentive to become leader and gave him the abilities needed to remain as leader longer than normal mafia would last. Note that he keeps saying things about how "if I was mafia I wouldn't last very long, would I?"
Lorick is the serial killer. I'm calling it now. I've posted a couple times that Bali expressed how uber-cool he thought it would have been if the serial killer had gotten the leadership position. He also said last time that he didn't like the leadership thing because of how it made the town play. Yet it's magically back again to torture us a second time.
Lorick's swiss army knife claim seems pretty reminiscent of the SK from last game, including his hyper-enthusiasm to be investigated without even allowing the possibility of having Godfather innocence. He's also been pushing hardcore for leadership from the very beginning. Notice how NONE of the real town ever seriously attempted it? Even Celina, for whom I lobbied because I saw her as a better option than Lorick, never really tried to get elected herself.
I think Bali designed the serial killer with some sort of incentive to become leader and gave him the abilities needed to remain as leader longer than normal mafia would last. Note that he keeps saying things about how "if I was mafia I wouldn't last very long, would I?"
Unknown2009-09-30 16:16:09
QUOTE (Othero @ Sep 29 2009, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmm, if you're looking for a blue sac I'll actually put myself up. I think the plan could actually work. I'm not 100% vanilla, I have a revenge ability, but I consider a revenge skill useless anyways. It often just kills a townie.
QUOTE (Lorick @ Sep 29 2009, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Best way to handle gold would be to give it to another party the leader believes is town, to hold unto until a res or if one is not coming at least able to put to good use. It should be up to the leader though.
As for Celina, since you can't vote to lynch a leader she wouldn't be able to finish the vote in your line of thought. My point is we are trying to grasp too much and missing one of the very basic points that started this whole thing which Req has tried very hard to hammer home "Only let in confirmed townies into the leader position". Since we can't confirm Celina at this time, it would be much safer for the town to go with the orginal plan with Othero. That is one I can support and understand. Celina just leaves too many uncertainities to kill someone over.
As for Celina, since you can't vote to lynch a leader she wouldn't be able to finish the vote in your line of thought. My point is we are trying to grasp too much and missing one of the very basic points that started this whole thing which Req has tried very hard to hammer home "Only let in confirmed townies into the leader position". Since we can't confirm Celina at this time, it would be much safer for the town to go with the orginal plan with Othero. That is one I can support and understand. Celina just leaves too many uncertainities to kill someone over.
QUOTE (Othero @ Sep 29 2009, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Unnominate Celina as Leader
Unvote: Othero
Nominate Othero as Leader
I actually like Lorick's plan better. As for trusting me, I'm not really trying to pull any sort of fast one. I'm putting myself up on the chopping block so I can be confirmed as town and so people know about my revenge ability. I'm not a fan of it because it almost always goes off on a townie. If I was mafia I wouldn't be putting myself out like this.
Unvote: Othero
Nominate Othero as Leader
I actually like Lorick's plan better. As for trusting me, I'm not really trying to pull any sort of fast one. I'm putting myself up on the chopping block so I can be confirmed as town and so people know about my revenge ability. I'm not a fan of it because it almost always goes off on a townie. If I was mafia I wouldn't be putting myself out like this.
QUOTE (requiem dot exe @ Sep 29 2009, 07:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is Lorick's plan, in your words? How exactly do you propose we kill you? Like I said, without a better option I was willing to bank on the presence of a vig, but given what we know now, there's no reason to make that assumption.
Plus "If I was mafia I wouldn't put myself out like this" is very much a Sicilian "wine in front of me" game. We can only assume that you're town because you offered to sacrifice yourself. If you don't actually die, it does us no good. Notice that Lorick swooped in and derailed the lynch only to try to get Othero in as leader? If we don't kill you, it throws suspicion on both you and Lorick, and at that point you're unlynchable.
If you don't want to be sacrificed anymore, say so, but it's going to be one of the scummiest things you can do.
Plus "If I was mafia I wouldn't put myself out like this" is very much a Sicilian "wine in front of me" game. We can only assume that you're town because you offered to sacrifice yourself. If you don't actually die, it does us no good. Notice that Lorick swooped in and derailed the lynch only to try to get Othero in as leader? If we don't kill you, it throws suspicion on both you and Lorick, and at that point you're unlynchable.
If you don't want to be sacrificed anymore, say so, but it's going to be one of the scummiest things you can do.
QUOTE (requiem dot exe @ Sep 29 2009, 08:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That was actually why Othero volunteered... It was a "blue" sac. Blue = villager, in case the slang is different here. It's an intentional sacrifice of a volunteer townie to help the town as a whole. So yes, I'm trying to lynch a townie. That was the plan when he volunteered.
And go find me quotes. I didn't "jump on you" for improving my plan. You switched to a different plan entirely, blamed it on me, and then failed to articulate how you planned to kill Othero in the first place. (Also, allow me to point out that you still want the townie dead).
Othero offered himself as a sacrifice, and then took it back. The only reason people do that is because they're mafia. It's a gamble, since you usually get lynched when you volunteer for it, but if you can pull it off you're effectively cleared. So if Othero really doesn't want to be lynched now, that's all the more reason to continue to lynch him.
I'm not suggesting we "weaken" Celina. I've already explained why her ability is worthless now. Mafia just won't try to kill her unless they can double-tap her in one night. There's no point now that she's claimed. So instead of useless, I'm suggesting we convert her ability into verification that she's telling the truth.
I also never really fought you over the leadership position. I just said that I didn't support you unless you verified yourself, and you failed spectacularly to do so. I've never seriously pushed for unlynchable.
And go find me quotes. I didn't "jump on you" for improving my plan. You switched to a different plan entirely, blamed it on me, and then failed to articulate how you planned to kill Othero in the first place. (Also, allow me to point out that you still want the townie dead).
Othero offered himself as a sacrifice, and then took it back. The only reason people do that is because they're mafia. It's a gamble, since you usually get lynched when you volunteer for it, but if you can pull it off you're effectively cleared. So if Othero really doesn't want to be lynched now, that's all the more reason to continue to lynch him.
I'm not suggesting we "weaken" Celina. I've already explained why her ability is worthless now. Mafia just won't try to kill her unless they can double-tap her in one night. There's no point now that she's claimed. So instead of useless, I'm suggesting we convert her ability into verification that she's telling the truth.
I also never really fought you over the leadership position. I just said that I didn't support you unless you verified yourself, and you failed spectacularly to do so. I've never seriously pushed for unlynchable.
QUOTE (Shiri @ Sep 30 2009, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well the only reason to kill you would be to prove Celina's telling the truth, right? If we were to elect/daykill/vig him we'd have no reason to go after you. The fact you volunteered to sac yourself for the town like that gives me the impression that we shouldn't be going after you for now unless we actually need you to do that.
Lorick2009-09-30 16:42:43
Ugh, I'm not an sk. You are using the role from the last game in an attmept to paste me as some sort of monster, but utterly decline the fact that following that line of thought the sk from last time had night powers, not day powers. I don't mind being investigated because I know I'm in the fellowship, but you can't seem to grasp that. I went for the leadership job because I'm not crucial to the success to the town, but between you, Celina, and Arix multiple people have attempted quite vocally paint me in a light that is less than one of the fellowship. I don't mind supporting Othero, I've claimed, I put myself out there, and you? You attemped to kill a townie to power claim another, have by process of elmination none of the roles that are crucial to the town with maybe the exception of doctor but I doubt that because you stated at the start you didn't mind attempting a claim, yet have fought tooth and nail to see to it that the latest plan was put into motion. You accepted neither ideas or compromise, and have at three different times doubted the town having an investigator, and resser, and/or a vig. That is an unrealistic view to have, and I don't understand why you had it.
Lorick2009-09-30 16:43:09
Nominate Othero for Leader
Daganev2009-09-30 16:44:20
QUOTE (requiem dot exe @ Sep 30 2009, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A couple last things.
Lorick is the serial killer. I'm calling it now. I've posted a couple times that Bali expressed how uber-cool he thought it would have been if the serial killer had gotten the leadership position. He also said last time that he didn't like the leadership thing because of how it made the town play. Yet it's magically back again to torture us a second time.
Lorick's swiss army knife claim seems pretty reminiscent of the SK from last game, including his hyper-enthusiasm to be investigated without even allowing the possibility of having Godfather innocence. He's also been pushing hardcore for leadership from the very beginning. Notice how NONE of the real town ever seriously attempted it? Even Celina, for whom I lobbied because I saw her as a better option than Lorick, never really tried to get elected herself.
I think Bali designed the serial killer with some sort of incentive to become leader and gave him the abilities needed to remain as leader longer than normal mafia would last. Note that he keeps saying things about how "if I was mafia I wouldn't last very long, would I?"
Lorick is the serial killer. I'm calling it now. I've posted a couple times that Bali expressed how uber-cool he thought it would have been if the serial killer had gotten the leadership position. He also said last time that he didn't like the leadership thing because of how it made the town play. Yet it's magically back again to torture us a second time.
Lorick's swiss army knife claim seems pretty reminiscent of the SK from last game, including his hyper-enthusiasm to be investigated without even allowing the possibility of having Godfather innocence. He's also been pushing hardcore for leadership from the very beginning. Notice how NONE of the real town ever seriously attempted it? Even Celina, for whom I lobbied because I saw her as a better option than Lorick, never really tried to get elected herself.
I think Bali designed the serial killer with some sort of incentive to become leader and gave him the abilities needed to remain as leader longer than normal mafia would last. Note that he keeps saying things about how "if I was mafia I wouldn't last very long, would I?"
None of the real town? Are you serious? you can't possibly know who is real town and who isn't yet.
Also, losing a townie for the same of the town is a good plan... if it actually gets us anything. But for now, it gains us nothing.
I also love, how I make a single comment, NOBODY backs me up, and you go off on how I'm ruining your plans and everybody is following me, and your jealous or some nonsense...
Seriously, stick to logic, and stop being such a drama queen.
Lorick2009-09-30 16:44:45
Celina never had to try for an election, she had you putting forth 12 pages on the issue for her.
Lorick2009-09-30 16:59:16
Actually Daganev, while I don't agree with everything you are saying, it is more reasonible than twitch over there. He is unable to accept any plan outside of his own, and once people stop supporting it he goes back to voting for himself, except he knews no one is going to elect him after all of this and especially considering he has given no claim for the town to assess.
Req, need to cool down a bit. You are letting this game get to your head. Just take a break and come back with it all thought out.
Req, need to cool down a bit. You are letting this game get to your head. Just take a break and come back with it all thought out.
Unknown2009-09-30 17:19:58
Votecount <3
Leader Nomination, 9 required for majority
Celina 5 (Othero, Furien, AtS, Zetsu, Shiri)
Othero 2 (Daganev, Lorick)
Requiem 2 (Arix, Requiem)
Lynch Majority, 9 required for majority
Othero 5 (Requiem, Furien, AtS, Othero, Zetsu)
Prodding Silferras and Zynna
Leader Nomination, 9 required for majority
Celina 5 (Othero, Furien, AtS, Zetsu, Shiri)
Othero 2 (Daganev, Lorick)
Requiem 2 (Arix, Requiem)
Lynch Majority, 9 required for majority
Othero 5 (Requiem, Furien, AtS, Othero, Zetsu)
Prodding Silferras and Zynna
Zynna2009-09-30 17:45:07
I'm not willing to nominate Celina for leadership because I don't like the idea of having an unlynchable, unkillable person in the group. Right now we only have her word that it's a 1-shot protection per kill, and I don't want to get into the situation where down the road we think she's scum but there's no way to get her out. And, if she is town and only has 1-shot protection, there's no point in stripping that from her now.
I also don't like the idea of killing off Othero and having a rezzer bring him back. If he's telling the truth and is just a vanilla save for the kill-last-person-who-lynched-me, it's not worth wasting a rezzer's probably limited amount of resurrections, and Othero is a good mafia player and so killing him off early (unless we think he's scum) also doesn't help us.
I also find Lorick a bit suspicious for the King Anthony thing -- not enough to think he's probably scum yet, but enough that I don't want to vote him for leader.
Of the parties put forth so far, Othero is probably the one I can most get behind.
I don't think a random selection would work because I wouldn't trust anyone else's 'random' vote, and likewise you all wouldn't trust mine. It would be too easy for mafia to get their choice that way.
Nominate Othero.
I also don't like the idea of killing off Othero and having a rezzer bring him back. If he's telling the truth and is just a vanilla save for the kill-last-person-who-lynched-me, it's not worth wasting a rezzer's probably limited amount of resurrections, and Othero is a good mafia player and so killing him off early (unless we think he's scum) also doesn't help us.
I also find Lorick a bit suspicious for the King Anthony thing -- not enough to think he's probably scum yet, but enough that I don't want to vote him for leader.
Of the parties put forth so far, Othero is probably the one I can most get behind.
I don't think a random selection would work because I wouldn't trust anyone else's 'random' vote, and likewise you all wouldn't trust mine. It would be too easy for mafia to get their choice that way.
Nominate Othero.
Lorick2009-09-30 17:54:04
Shiri, Othero, if you join this I think we can put this issue behind us. People respect your opinions.
Unknown2009-09-30 18:31:28
Like I said. At this point, I'm not going to be able to help the town. I don't have the energy to continuously fight with the intelligent and logical SK and Daganev. Besides a cursory response from Lorick no one bothered to comment on the likelihood of Lorick being the serial killer. Or how incredibly scummy it is that Othero offered to be sacrificed and then took it back. You guys reacted exactly the way I predicted you would. He now has your trust, and you're going to assume he's town.
This isn't me being petty because I'm not getting my way. This is me being mentally exhausted at the amount of effort I've put into coming up with strategies for town and then people not even bothering to read them. My talents are no good if people (in general, not just Dag) just ignore what I'm saying, and I don't have the willpower to keep responding to Daganev (specifically) over and over with stuff I've already written. Your illiteracy isn't my issue.
You might as well sacrifice me now before it actually costs us the game.
Vote Requiem
This isn't me being petty because I'm not getting my way. This is me being mentally exhausted at the amount of effort I've put into coming up with strategies for town and then people not even bothering to read them. My talents are no good if people (in general, not just Dag) just ignore what I'm saying, and I don't have the willpower to keep responding to Daganev (specifically) over and over with stuff I've already written. Your illiteracy isn't my issue.
You might as well sacrifice me now before it actually costs us the game.
Vote Requiem
