I'm not sure what you mean.
If what is a scum power? Being immune to daykills?

First, if you want to postulate that mafia never gets daykill resistance, you need to explain why. I can think of plenty of reasons why they would. For example, any role that is supposed to deal with a third party. So either a serial killer, or a day-vig that's supposed to run counter to the serial killer but Bali didn't want them to be able off the mafia.

You're also assuming that we even HAVE a role that kills during the day. Last game there were several items we could have bought that granted people homicidal tendencies. Verithrax bought an axe and promptly used it to slice one of the mafia in half. Maybe Bali wants to make sure that at least a few of the mafia don't get pwn'd during the day, since at 2 scum (SK and a mafia) died randomly and with no provocation last time.

I think it's entirely possible that Bali would give the mafia daykill resistance. Plus, Daganev, you're assuming that Celina's actually being honest about the tankiness, which is also an assumption I'm not willing to make yet.

I also wanted to mention that the gold might actually come into play in a big way here. Like I mentioned, some of the items we got last time were just insane. One shot dayvig, one shot investigate, an orb that tells you if a post was honest or not. Our leader was able to buy way more items than anyone else, and frequently bought all of the useful stuff in a single post before anyone else had the opportunity. If our leader ends up being mafia, the items could actually hurt us just as much as the lynch immunity.

I think we should have a clause that the gold gets split with someone else, as we elect the leader?

@Shiri: You really should make sure you've read the entire thread. The lynch/leader first thing was already brought up and resolved. They both happen at the same time and we can't finish the day until we've done both. Technically, it says we nominate first, but from what I read it doesn't actually matter. We just can't lynch in the middle of the day like last time.

I agree that the leader should be someone we can take out if necessary. This is why I object to Lorick. If he acts like he did last game, I want the option of lynching him to be open instead of wasting a kill on him so he'll stop stalling the town.

I find the logic that the "leader" should be utterly immune to all forms of attack questionable, unless we can absolutely prove said person is townie beyond a shadow of a doubt. We don't want a rich mafia member on god-mode running around. I'd certainly be hesitant to vote me in.

Unless someone has a perspective that I'm missing.

Or some way to prove I'm town. I'm all for personal god-mode!

No, you pretty much got it right, Celina. Tank claims don't get elected as leader.

@Shiri: It's actually not a terrible idea to test tank claims. It at least verifies that Celina is telling the truth, and isn't actually the godfather who has no abilities but shows up as innocent on a cop scan. Tonight, if we have a vigilante, I think he should shoot Celina. If she survives, we have a clear who can lead tomorrow.

As much as I hate Daganev's assumptions, he is actually right. Kill resistance is typically a town ability, not a mafia one. It's a frequent scum claim, because it explains why the clears aren't dying at night, but it's usually not actually a power they have. Even last game where 2/3 mafia had resistance, they had to charge it up and work for it.

@Celina: Do you have a chance of dying upon attack, or is it more of a 1-time protection thing (AKA bulletproof townie)? If you're a BP, then confirm that the vig should shoot you. If it's a random chance, then it doesn't actually help us.

Right. It's possible. It's happened before. Being immune to day AND nightkills in combination with the possibility to screw us out of a lynch seems unlikely, though, so maybe you're right. But it would be a bit of a waste to "prove" at this stage anyway.

I looked and still can't find anything more offensive about the necromancy stuff than "necromancy is normally bad" and the last game - but the villains are different as it says in the flavour post. Lorick can you get any more useful advice out of your other spirits if you ask them now, or do you have to wait, or do you think it would be prudent to wait?

Anyway, yeah, Bali PMed me the lynch/election thing to clarify...was tired I guess.

Req, firstly I was talking more about daykills, which are usually limited. Nightkills are unreliable to verify and why would we want a vig coming out so fast anyway?

I can resist a kill once, so if you send the Vig after me, it'll use it up. Just keep that in mind.

Pardon? We have to elect a leader today, and once we have one, they don't get replaced, even on death. Or am I totally misinterpreting the rules?

If we actually have a town sided dayvig, then by all means, shoot Celina now. If she's lying, she dies and we got scum. If she's survives, then she's verified at least in her power claim, and I'd actually be ok with nominating her for leader. That's why I was asking how her resistance actually works (she used the term "immunity" but I'm assuming she isn't actually immune to dying entirely).

The night kill thing to verify Celina might not work as well as I thought. I've gotten really used to playing in games where you know exactly which roles exist, and when you have a BP and a vig, you usually have the vig shoot a BP to verify that they're not mafia. I dunno that it would work all that well here, since all she has to do is say that someone tried to kill her but she fought them off. We don't even know if we have a vigilante.

Actually...I think we can safely assume that we get some way to kill off other players, and probably either in more than 1 role, or as items. Otherwise the leader position is just retarded. If we elect mafia and we can't kill them at all, we lose. Period.

When I said "lead" I didn't mean "be leader" I meant someone we knew was clear, and could freely voice FoS's and possibly lead random lynches. But see my post above this. The plan might not work as well, given the differences in setups.

If the vig wants to take a shot at me and the town thinks that's best, works for me. Just make sure I have a doctor keeping me safe!

The only thing is, I'm wary to reveal the vig so soon. As demonstrated in the Touhougame, townies with kill powers are useful in a clench.

If we have a dayvig, I really think the best thing for the town would be to shoot you. It proves you actually have the ability you claim, and then we can elect either one of you as leader. It's the same sort of deal as to why Lorick could have been a good leader if he hadn't sketched out with his demonstration.

For a night vig, we don't have to reveal him. If vig shoots you, you claim hit. If you claim hit and vig didn't shoot you (and someone else died, meaning it wasn't the mafia) then he outs himself and we lynch you. And yes, the doc would be on you after that until someone more important claims.

Quick P.S., I'm thinking much longer term than just this challenge. Dayvig helps us with the leader stuff. Otherwise, it just helps us win the game.

Well onward with the attempted murder!

...It isn't necromancy, it's conjuration. I can summon various beings to aid us, one of them was the ghost of the old king. I didn't turn the man into a ghost or do anything vile to him, I just called him as he was to us. And he was hardly angry with me about it, maybe annoyed that we spent so much time bickering, but hardly attempting to devour peoples souls like Arix seems to be suggesting.

Celina- That was a very timely claim there, don't you know.

Shiri- What question would you have asked? I was racking my brain but was coming up with blanks on short notice.

I only have enough energy to summon a single being a day. Anthony didn't seem to useful so I used him to prove my power. The others might be better reserved to specific situations where their realm of influence comes into play.

To be fair, when you summon a ghost it's still necromancy...are you saying the others are alive or something?


You didn't have short notice! Just off the top of my head...do you know where we can get anything trolls might be weak to? Or, uh...he died during our lifetimes according to the front post. Maybe he could have cleared someone in his court or whatever if we have anyone like that. ("is there anyone here you recognise?")

I still think whiffing kills on Celina is suboptimal, but whatever...

Anyway, Nominate Lorick for leader.

Yes, all my other summons are magical creatures.

Req, the reason I assume there is someone with a daykill ability, is because Celina said that she is immune to a daykill...

Hard to be immune to something that doesn't exist.

If Celina turns out to be lying, any other leader options?