If I give my essence to people with benevolence I lose essence too, but we are not talking about "other things" we are talking about the cost of zap. Try to stick with the topic and not tossing out red herrings.

And, it's not a bad thing at all that you'd have to actually weigh the cost versus the benefit more.

We're talking about cost and use of zap in combat. What red herrings? This zapping is generally done when fighting (though today it has also been used to chase down rogue dreamweavers... which is along much the same lines, IMO). It is, if used, an addition to the combat cost.

(Though benevolence would, indeed, be a red herring in this discussion, I guess! Well done on pointing that out.)

To Zarquan: When considering the suggestion, what's the benefit, really? ~1300 damage from me to a Demigod at range. 1 sip, no sparkle. At that point it is pretty much flavour.

Though stacking it on like this is rough. I just think if it's made flavour it should probably just be made flavour all-around. No cost, no real benefit (damage could be lowered / removed, just keep the texts), whatever.

So, having established the cost is not an issue, what change to zap would you like to see to bring it more into balance, Xenthos?

Surely you see the problem in a group of demigods near-instantly killing any unshielded target in the local area without any warning, setup or significant difficulty involved?

I do. I was actually editing it in to the above post when you put yours in.

PS: We have not established that cost is not an issue. You may think you have, heh. I do not agree.

I call bull:censor: ( can I say bull:censor: on the forums? please don't raise my warning level any higher).

Zap has always been used as the new rage coven, from back when Serenwilde had all your demigods and we raided Glomdoring and zapkilled you all, to when we did it on Nil, and now to those same demigods doing it to Serenwilde. The cost of zap is nothing, period. I don't see how you can even argue otherwise, knowing full well the amount of essence you can generate without even bothering to try.

The cost of everything does not change the fact that zap is already cheap and whoreable and it does not need it's essence cost removed if it is made balanced.

Zap is burstable. It's far less whoreable given the delay. The question here is what is considered "balanced". I do not consider the suggestion balanced, with the essence cost. I mean... I just don't see the point in it.

If the intent is to just make it flavour, then go ahead and say that that is the intent and set it up that way.

Aside from making the ability fluff, which is not what I want, what else can you come up with? Or alternatively, why do the suggestions on the last page not work, if we ignore the cost issue?

Yeah, I'm still annoyed about last night. ):

You could make subsequent zaps do less damage, for example. To the point where after a certain amount each zap is only doing ~500. Would still let them stack on, but given our (Lusternia's) population it probably wouldn't be as bad as it is now. And 2-3 would still be doing (close to) the same.

That would be one option, without giving immunity.

I wouldn't mind if zap damage was like laetitia curing, that a single target couldn't get hit with it more than once in any N-second period. As someone who's been on both ends of the mass-zap tactic, I don't like it because it's primarily effective only against the younger people who don't know how to deal with it. Avaer's idea that once you've been hit you get a couple of seconds of immunity to zaps seems like the best option to me. Zap would still be useful as a ranged attack as it was originally intended even if it's no longer the coordinated-instakill it is now.

On its own, it's flavor, sure. My point was that it's not something you should be relying on to get the job done entirely, as in the case of the gank squad. You can use it to finish off that guy who ran away or help your friend who's engaged someone head-to-head, and I'd still find that very useful.

Oh please, if you can enter an area, instantly kill a person without ever going near them, then leave the area with no drawback to you other than you have to spend 5 minutes regaining that essence you just spent. Or knowing full well that you can take out a key target (meld holder) by distracting them or merely seeing them move a room and all you have to do is count to three and all zap and bam target dead from range with no setup, no warning, and useable by any demigod. There is a problem with the skill.

With over 50 demigods and more coming each day this problem merely escalates. I am sorry you don't want to lose your precious kill method, and hey guess what we lose it too!, but sometimes crap needs to be fixed. I thought you were an envoy afterall.

I don't know, I think nerfing zaps if necessary is fine. There's a reason they came up with these instead of just giving us T-clap back.

I'd find it better to help my friend by actually... doing something effective, like running over to do a few afflictions with weapons (plus some damage).

Which might be why I offered an alternative that still leaves it useful, while weakening it in the mass-gank sense. I guess you'd rather attack me than comment on the idea, though.

I can't attack you, I am short 4 other demigods.

Can you produce some numbers here? For example, how many demigods does it take to instagank someone with 2000 health? 3000/4000/5000 health?

How does this solve the issue, that mid-level players are blown up from a distance, near instantly, without warning, setup or significant difficulty when you have a team of appropriate size?

I think at present you'd need a couple more, I survived the Mag demi-zap of 5 people without even hitting vitality. *cough* Which is kind of why I feel that tweaking it to that solution would render it ineffective. Whereas decreasing the damage the more it's used (though neither this nor immunity makes much RP sense, neither does stun-resistance) still leaves the possibility of a burst to get that guy who just tumbled out (with more than 1000 health, but very damaged).


The problem with this is that different demigods do different damage. It's based on Int and affected by the +% magic damage rune (as well as any other +% damage effects), so it's impossible to tell.

I'm asking for what you want to see, since you're proposing the solution. Let's assume that they don't have the arti-rune, but have about 15-16 int or so. How many should it take to instagank?

Edit: From that, it should be possible to calculate how much damage you want each zap to be doing on average, right?