Why not see if you can pay back your fines WITH enchantments? Like, say, make a deal with a Glomdoring guild to provide x amount of Cleanse in return for unenemying. Or y amount of Cleanse, it's really up to you. The point being that there is at least one guild which should be willing to make interesting unenemying procedures (Nekotai, woo, yea.)

Yeah, so, I asked Serenwilde about getting unenemied. Everiine asked what all I was enemied to, and after expressing his deepest sympathies, he told me he'd get me unenemied to Serenwilde for some token gesture if I could get unenemied to everywhere else...which came out to over 500k. Needless to say, I'm still enemied.

I don't think there are many Celestians that have been enemied to Nekotai though.

If my fines are more than zero gold, I'll not pay. Done nothing to earn the status.

Goddamnit, now I want a waffle.

*goes to kitchen and makes a waffle*

Plus you know the minute you finish paying the clock is ticking to the next unearned, meaningless, tactical enemying and you're right back in the same hole.

I wish they'd split enemy status into two kinds. One for people who actually are enemies, and one for people who we just want to throw guards and shrine powers at, which is explicitly tactical in nature and divorced from meaning. But I don't think anyone else really cares about what it means, only about what practical effects it has, even when they grump over unearned enemyings. In the state of Lusternia today, "enemy" completely means the latter, and no one would use the former because no one cares what it means, so I suppose I could just as easily pretend they did split it into two, and no one's bothering to use the former.

There's absolutely no point in trying to get unenemied to an organisation and its guilds unless you want to join that organisation.

@ Lendren: if we could be bothered we could write up a scroll which detailed the offenses of each 'enemy'. If we could be bothered.

It's more than not being bothered: it would require admitting that in many cases there aren't any.

That was a long time ago too.

When I was enemied to Glomdoring and Viravain with the current "war", I specifically asked Talan about it. The response was basically "Yes, I know you did everything you could to keep the alliance, and I trust you more than anyone else on the Circle, but shrine powers are shrine powers, sorry". Needless to say, I'm till enemied.

The reward for giving the benefit of the doubt and delaying enemy statuses was waking up to three dead Avatars and a dead wyrdling. People will be unhappy about being enemied, particularly those who are "not involved". Unfortunately, there are a whole lot of people who are "not involved" right up until the point where they're encouraged (or pressured) to join a raid. Being upset that you are treated like or branded an enemy by an org who you are at war with seems like a bit of a newbie mistake.

I notice that at least one person here who was enemied strictly for political reasons completely neglects to mention that when he withdrew from politics, he was immediately unenemied with no fines. I can't speak for Nienla, who does the the Night/Nocht fines, but the Glom/Vira fines which have been given out thus far to people who were enemied for participating in the war without aggravated griefery have been 15k/5k+100k essence, which is pretty reasonable, given some of the fines I've seen.

You've just highlighted the reason why we need a formalized diplomacy (i.e., war) system. Enemy status should be given to offenders, not just everyone in the opposing organization. I know that's my opinion, and I'd probably be outnumbered in a poll on the subject.

I've always prided myself (perhaps wrongly) on not harming others except in defense of my own home. Giving me an enemy status that I did not earn makes me reconsider this position and encourages me to earn the status, especially when money is not an obstacle. My conscience, however, still causes me pain when I even consider going on the offensive. I don't get how the griefers do it...

Nejii did this for the longest time. He even has a special "little" black book for this specific purpose.

Yep. I missed a couple years due to this internet, but before that it was pretty reliable.

They feed off tears and lulz.

Whereas the result of enemying people preemptively would have been three dead Avatars and a dead wyrdling. This is the fundamental fallacy of politics: Something Must Be Done. This Is Something. Therefore, This Must Be Done. There's no way in a million years that preemptively enemying non-combatants with a hundred years of unbroken precedent of not raiding (or with less than a year out of the portal, equally stupidly) is actually going to have the slightest effect on stopping a raid like this. But it gives you the illusion of having done something, to appease... who? Your critics, the armchair regents? Or yourself?

The fact that almost all public policy is based on the same fallacy doesn't change that it's wrong, and worse than wrong, usually today's problem was caused by someone using this approach on yesterday's problem. The only question is, do you want to be the cause of tomorrow's problem? Is your excuse for helping to break Lusternia that other people already came before you and helped break it? The world could be what people made it, if people had the courage to make it the world that they wanted it to be. When it's not, it's not, because of every single person who went along with the prevailing wrongness.

And if chocolate had no calories, we'd all have a lovely Halloween.

I wouldn't have, 7 years ago. (Parents convinced me I was allergic to chocolate from the age of 2. I'm not, by the way)

Oh you poor, poor man.

What if they made a, I dunno, war system where if they're in an org your org is at war with all shrine powers, guards, statues will effect them but they wont be labled as "enemied" unless they actually do something bad? Then when the war ends they get the war status removed and unenemied people can carry on as normal? Where's Estarra? Wanna poke her into doing this

The problem with a war system, at least as I saw it implemented in Achaea, is that it requires a declaration from both sides to make the war a reality. If it only required one side, the bully could always push around whomever they pleased. However, if it does require both sides, why should the current underdog accept?

Personally, I'd opt for the single declaration system as long as it doesn't affect all the same things an enemy status does. So, it'd be like "enemy lite" or something. No enemy status would mean no fines for you when the war was over, at least.

Even with a war system, people would indiscriminately enemy everyone to get the full effect.

How'd Lendren get enemied anyways, if he was just defending? I've always been just defending and no one's ever enemied me, Mag, Glom, or Seren. Heck, I was SC too.