No, that was a method for using choke to your advantage - its a double edged sword which can easily be turned against the Night user. Especially against warriors who have no passives. Narsrim has used this tactic to great effect on Shuyin and myself in the past.

Also figure out what metagaming is.

And 'easy to get lessons' thing is rather lolworthy. You can get 1 credit per run-through of Grey Moors. Maybe 2 on the off-chance you get the 5k from Surtami. That's 12 lessons every what, 45 minutes? That's 109 hours of grey moors to trans -1- skill, and that's assuming you can get every single kill every time they repop and you get the 5k every time (you don't). That is not easy to get.

While it's an issue, it's not a huge barrier. Since you only encounter Choke in two guilds.

However, aeon and Choke curing, while they are both delayed actions, have completely different priorities. Aeon can be cured, so the system curing prioritises afflictions that hinder sipping phlegmatic/eating reishi. Once aeon is cured, then the system cures everything else. While in Choke the curing must handle all afflictions.

Not to mention Aeon has a really short time limit. (Eight seconds not during Waning phase makes me sad).

Edit: point I was trying to make that just because you have a curing system for delayed actions (aeon, sap) it doesn't mean it can be used just like that for Choke.

It's not that short. Wane functions slightly differently in that it can sometimes be really short and sometimes really long, but the aeon skill itself lasts for a decent amount of time (more than enough for you to get a kill on your target if they don't cure it). And the longest wane time is quite a bit longer than aeon, as I recall.

Night choke is a pretty steep barrier to deal with. All practical evidence points to this.

It effectively demolishes almost all reflexive curing. This alone walls off many would be combatants. But, even for those who can get past this curve, the only thing on the other side is an affliction class that synergizes extremely well with their own ability (which is only natural), and has ents which continue to attack unimpeded.

If the choked person has a passive offense based on enemy status, love potion pretty well gums it up in choke. See Lehki fighting Celina.

Replacing it with normal aeon would save a great many tertiary headaches that stem from a completely incurable aeon effect. Choke has been something of a sacred cow for a long time due to its originality, but seriously, it's time to kill that cow.

Even if it isn't replaced with aeon? Make it curable in some way, or much more preventable. Let shadows be stripped out of the room in some way, and let speed defense block it (accounting for power cost of course). Make the SD actually work to set up a choke condition, the way a 1v1 Nihilist has to set up for crucify. In it's current form, it's much to easy to reach that state, and then the deck is stacked. The person is incurably aeoned, probably bleeding nicely (painful in choke), has ents wailing on them, and is well on their way to being a froggy.

Shield stun + love potion makes it next to impossible to try to keep up with curing and actually maintain any offense, yah. ):

I think many of you are misunderstanding the argument when when we ask if you seriously think that choke is the number one barrier to combat?

No one's actually disagreeing that it can be nuts you know, but I still don't think it's what's stopping people from fighting altogether.

Also, the recent lash/succumb switch has made 1v1's vs. SD's a lot more manageable in avoiding the toadcurse now, given their need to keep lashing in order to get the mana down low enough, instead of just succumbing once and waiting for the kill.

Not to say I'm not opposed to any change in choke, but whatever change occurs, please take the eq cost, shadow requirement, cauldron release requirement, double-edge effect, -and- power cost into account, heh.

Shuyin makes good points.

That's not really an argument worth having- though I feel, yes, it is a very signficant barrier, simply because it must be accounted for. If we want to talk about opinions as to what is the absolute largest barrier, we'd be here all night talking about nothing.



Most definitely. I'm not out to see choke made into some very expensive worthless ability- just make it be less of a show stopper, something more managable. If necessary, of course, reduce the costs to reflect this.

Yeah you need to release.

A requirement is a requirement. You can't complain about choke when you're not going to consider everything about it.

And come on, everyone knows how important that half a second can be in Pingsternia!

I just wanted everybody to know that they have a whole half second to avoid choke if they see shadows dropped!

Why not have nightsight decrease the affects of choke the higher the level of allowing a certain amount of skills still go through....