Ah, didn't realize you were talking about bookbinding, I thought you were talking about an rp reason for org languages.

Maybe it wasn't the best example, but I don't see it as that cut and dried a difference. I don't think the language change would be retroactive even if the person who wrote it intended it that way: it would just be explained or unexplained. Every month, things we used to be able to do we stop being able to do, and we suddenly start being able to do other things, and no one bats an eye. To me it's just a spectrum of how extreme the lack of explanation is. Forgetting how to talk to one another would be bigger than some, but it's a difference of quantity, not of kind, and I suspect if I cared enough I could come up with a half-dozen similarly big ones that have already happened. But since I don't care enough to think that hard about it, I should just shut up, eh?

Why do you even have to think hard? All you have to do is point at Maeve. There are probably at least six examples of such changes dealing with her alone.

As well as archways appearing, then moving repeatedly to/from guards, suddenly no longer being able to put guards/totems in EthGlom/EthSeren, suddenly being allowed to put torus exits in Ethereal areas when they were denied previously, etc. etc. Ethereal is rife with unexplained (ICly) changes.

Those are good, but I bet there's even better that's just not occurring to me at the moment. (Maeve's too easy to explain away: she's so inconsistent now she's consistent. The archways are good, but on a par with all the skill changes that hit us every third announce post: no reason why the archway moved, but it doesn't mean we're claiming, as Fain thinks the language thing would be, that the archway was always over there.)

Glom might with the false memory. One idea might be to have Maeve decide to "allow" the communes to learn the dialects of Fae. The cities could discover texts detailing languages that have fallen out of use since the rise of the Holy Celestine Empire.

Admittedly I'm not sure about this idea. Unless common is removed Org languages would be as unused as racial languages, except for maybe sensitive library documents or for the personal libraries of guilds. I'm not certain if removing common would be a good or bad idea. Most likely it would involve heaps of both.

However, if common were removed, it does open quite the world of possibilities. It would make Mindread that Illithoid have useful (assuming that the website is accurate) as they can now understand any language. It would certainly play into their espionage theme. It would make bookbinding far far more useful, however it would also make it somewhat mandatory for ambassadors. How can you get unenemied to city/commune X if you can't talk to them? It would force cities and communes inward. If you saw someone from a foreign territory within your city/commune you couldn't ask them to leave unless they were of your race -- you'd have to forcibly remove them. It would force the cities and communes to be more independent and self reliant, which seems like it would cause city/commune culture to develop independently, which could be marvelous or disastrous for RP. It would necessitate joining one, however, as rogues would be largely unable to communicate with the world other than along racial lines.

It would also make it far more difficult to forge personal alliances and friendships outside of the local community, which again is a double edged sword. On one hand it makes the world seem far smaller, as the amount of people you can interact with at any point in time is suddenly limited to your community and your race. But that might be a good thing, as it would likely strengthen the internal relationships of city/communes. Races are just fragmented shards of the Elder Gods, so along those lines it would be a soft reminder of the shared heritage -- which could potentially strengthen the animosity between people of the same race who find themselves at odds, or bring those who share values closer. It would be left in the hands of the player how to interpret it, so yay RP!

Losing/gaining languages is simple. After joining a community you perform an action at the nexus of power, and then voila, you've melded with the community on a 'higher' level, represented by your ability to speak a language only they can understand. When you leave your city/commune that tie is severed, and thus the language is 'forgotten.' As for common, there could be an event that reaffirms the distrust between communes and cities.

Despite all of the potential the only way I could see this working is if races are given multiple languages to begin with, including a degree of overlap, similar to how Elfen and Faelings share Elfen. It would allow SOME communication, as would be necessary for trade and political matters, without making any one language universally understood as to render organization languages useless. There is a problem in that, however. Faeling and Elfen sharing a language is fairly self explanatory, but some other races lend themselves poorly to other languages. Dracnari or Taurian, for example, seem to have little common ground with other races and would lack the bond necessary for shared languages to develop. Unfortunately the least popular races tend to be the ones with the littlest common ground with the others, so this could potentially drive them even further into the endangered species list.

All in all I think it's too drastic an idea for the admins to touch, but if done right it could be fruitful and kick all kinds of ass.

Common doesn't have to be removed, just not the default.

I don't know how much trouble it would be to code, but if it was changed so that if you were speaking your org language, it would look like speaking common now, and if you were speaking common, it would look like speaking a racial language.

Example Org Language:

You say, "Hey there!"

Example common:

You say, in common, "Hey there!"


I know enough people that would use the org language just to avoid the modifier to the say command

Perhaps remove common, but make Ambassadors, and Ambassador's Aides able to speak the organizational languages as well? They're common enough, right?

There is no good reason to remove common. This is not World of Warcraft.

What about tacos? Tacos are a good reason for anything. I'd kill a puppy for tacos.

Okay, maybe not, but still.

I think you strongly underestimate the power of people to be lazy. As they have friends outside of their city/commune, they'll likely just stay in common speak all the time like they do now.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad idea or trying to say it shouldn't be added. It's just unlikely to be added unless it's seen as beneficial to the majority, and I think that most people will ignore it because they're lazy and don't want to switch languages =/

Part of the Maeve bit is the, "Ethereal is meldable (how it began). Suddenly, it cannot be melded by mages at all, and Druids can only meld Faethorn / their own area. Oh, wait, now we can kill Maeve to meld anywhere." thing. One of the primary examples, which is (to me) far larger of a historical loop-hole than anything languages could ever possibly represent.

And then, yes, all of the other yoyo inconsistency with her, heh.

Those people will be a minority though, and can be safely looked down upon like French people look down on English talkers.

Give the... 15 racial languages plus the bookbinder and illithoid racial abilities some actual purpose?

The only time I have seen languages used is when people were being a-hats (a room full of elfen and faeling speaking elfen specifically so that the one human there would not be able to understand) sure it will still happen but the ability to speak a different language would be important if it was the only way for you to communicate with someone from a different org.

EDIT: I'm already seeing bookbinders acting as translators and mags/gloms bringing illithoid to the table to ensure the translators aren't making things up.

Why I suggested making a "drunk" kind of speech modifier. If you are not of their org, and you must speak in common, it comes out horribly accented, if not unhearable.. At least that way there can be interaction among friends on an out-org basis.... but at the same time, their differences will be more visible. Plus, maybe a skill in discernment that let's you detect what they are saying easier?

I'd speak common. And I would kill people who looked down on me for it. Yay new RP.

Kelysa is pretty Xenophobic and insane but even I think I'd lean towards just using common after the novelty wore off. >_>

even if there was a modifier before everything you say?

I'd really like anything that encouraged more use of languages, but as long as there is common, most people are just going to use that all the time.