Mrh. In unrelated news, good lord man, how do you have ten THOUSAND posts? Do you even sleep?

Look at Shiri's.

Crazy people...

Perhaps the solution to this is for the money for guards to come out of Guild coffers, instead of the commune's. That makes more sense to me anyway, since they -are- guild guards.

Also, I think being able to enemy a communemate to your guild is very useful, especially if they have deserved it, and if the guards attacked them, it would provide an incentive for that person to make it up to the guild, instead of just leaving the status since it doesn't really do anything on its own merit.

And you don't see -any- problem with guards spawn-camping someone? None at all?

If you rectify the situation swiftly enough, it won't be a problem. If the leadership decides that the guild is being problematic, they can remove the power allotment for the guild. Checks and balances

Neither works. When you're spawn-camped, there's not a whole lot you can do... unless you're trying to send tells while getting killed back to level 1. Removing power allotment does nothing until the next time the guards power is checked... so there is no "instant" checks and balances here. Frankly, it's a completely absurd notion that this would be acceptable in any situation.

They even made it so you can't immolate enemies at your nexus to spawn camp them.

There's this little thing called grace that protects you from that. Unless you are afking (which is a nono anyway) that situation won't happen

you sure? I thought grace did not block guards, specifically because in the time you have you could sneak in to normally guarded areas... maybe it was just innocence though cause I remember that there was a pita novice who was being an ahat behind innocence and the second he was enemied they ganked him. (like a novice in my guild who wasn't listening to anyone so we booted him and advised other org to take any action they deemed necessary.

Really? Pardon my ignorance, I wasn't aware of that.
But, that seems wrong to me, somehow.

I know this is unlikely to happen, or even garner much support, but perhaps grace should stop you from entering enemy territory.

1) Yes, guards kill through Grace (and Innocence). That's the only way to get rid of problem novices who are trying to "abuse" Innocence (usually alts trying to make a nuisance of themselves). And if they didn't... I could go AFK at the Moonhart for 5 minutes every time I reform.
2) This suggestion still doesn't help because first of all, being enemied to the Serenguard does not make Serenwilde enemy territory. You'd still be able to enter. A member of the organization -cannot- be enemied to that organization (that one is checked), so, for example, Everiine cannot be enemied to the Serenwilde. However, the hags could spawn-camp him, grace or no, because they don't care about it and he'd keep on spawning there.

Perhaps I didn't explain my whole thought well enough.

If grace prevented you from entering enemy territories, guards could be changed to not hit through grace.

To which I pointed out that it does not fully solve the issue you were trying to solve with it...

Further, you still have issues with problem novices who enter with grace before getting enemied.

Seriously, you're putting in a lot of extra coding and revamping for something that isn't needed, heh.

Ok, how does it not solve the problem? If the guard cannot hit through grace, your spawn camping issue becomes a non-issue. I'm not trying to prevent guild enemies from getting killed at the nexus, just preventing them from being spawn-camped. Which this idea would do, unless I've somehow overlooked something.

And like I said earlier, I know this is not likely to happen. It was just throwing ideas out there.

If the guard cannot hit through grace, you're introducing a large number of other issues (hence why I say it does not fully solve your problem). You then have to start addressing these issues, and then the issues that those changes cause... and even at this point you already have an overhaul to how Grace works as well as an overhaul to how guards work. Just so you can say that the guards are guild guards.

Just a wee bit excessive, no?

Can you list some of those issues? I'm rather curious now, it seems there is a lot of technical stuff I still don't understand. Yay for learning new things!

First and foremost; you can no longer get rid of novices created just to be a pest (they can enter in with grace while not an enemy, then can't be killed / removed). They are now there to stay. If you don't think this will be abused, then you don't know the playerbase, heh.
Next: Grace into enemy territory is perfectly acceptable (keep in mind that enemy territory is far more than just prime organizational enemy territory). You have Nil, Water, Earth, Faethorn... which, while annoying, is Intended Use for grace (there have been discussions in the past to not let people use grace for this, and it's come back to use that you "can't abuse" it in these situations. It is "not abusable".
Beyond that, you have all of the NPC territory (such as, say, gorgogs). Should you not be able to visit the gorgog isle if you've hunted a gorgog in the past and are currently graced? While these aren't as large as the first issue, they are "unintended consequences" of your suggestion. Should it not work on Nil, but they can walk in to Gorgogs? Which areas are acceptable for it, which are not?
And so on, and so forth. Basically, it just introduces more questions, more decisions, and whenever you muck with grace you're going to have sweeping consequences.

And all that's not even mentioning the problems with locking a person out of their home org. You've got an effective powerblock, possibly effectively blocking someone from trade skills, and loss of access to the higher planes, all because someone got a little uppity. Blocking org members from becoming guild enemies can really clamp down hard on movement between orgs. To cite a thoroughly dead horse, Narsrim would have never ever gotten into Glomdoring if each Glomdoring guild felt more empowered to keep him out. While that in itself might have been desirable, there are a lot of non-griefers out there who are guild enemies, and that introduces a lot more tension and inertia. At that point, it's not just guilds as a cog in the process so much as it's guilds with full control over the process.

I don't understand what's wrong with guards as they are.

Guild enemy statuses are slightly different: they are not a pound of flesh punishment, but a monetary one. I think it's silly how enemy orgs (cough, Serenwilde) enemy someone to every guild simply because they are an enemy of the org. Personally, as a GM, I will only guild enemy when someone actually hurts my GUILD. This is a special little, expensive salt in the wound for people who unf up.

Not every guild! In mine, being an enemy of the guild requires being an enemy of the guild. Strange but true!