...History nerd. The movie isn't just a movie, you know. ><

I can safely say that the 'ignore them' argument is a lot more valid that the first two posts on THE LAST page give it credit for. At the least, you gain the peace of mind of no longer having had to deal with the problem; and then, why bother bitching about it? I've dealt with the type of person Urazial supposedly is, according to all of you. I have dealt with them for a very long time, have been in the position of being the only one to bother stopping them, or have been in the general position of suffering through the 'annoyance' it is. Ignoring them has always, eventually, worked. I've even been in the position of being the one causing the trouble; when there was no rise gotten, I walked away to bother somebody else who did have people dumb enough to bite at the worm.

Losing a few mobs is really.. not that bad. I'm not in favor of another playerbase leash; we have too many as it is.


EDIT: Also, the 'bully' analogy only half works. In real life, a bully can physically obstruct you. In Lusternia, they have to play by the limitations of the game - giving them no opportunity to actually harm your character personally happens to be a side-effect of ignoring it.

EDIT2: Ironic error fixed. :3

Absolutely none taken: I suck, and am not a match for half of any one of those people, let alone more than one. But that's beside the point: if one of them came and fought me and I died, and then they gave us an hour off, I'd be fine. But they don't want a fight. They just want to run in and out at every entrance over and over, dodge, flee, and never fight. If you ignore them they attack something, but they only do it to get you chasing, then they run. That's been going on for hour after hour after hour, every day for the last few days. What really is the point? I'd be happy to have and lose a fight against any one of them if it meant that afterwards I could go back to doing something else for a little while.

You have to ignore them even when they attack mobs. It really does work, but I understand how people might not want to RP chars that are able to ignore such things.

The sticky concept is a good one that I think could really reduce the stress level on the defender side of things.

Even assuming you're willing to flush even the most basic RP down the toilet -- and if you are, more power to you -- it still doesn't work for us, because trees don't grow back, and Ladies don't come back. If all your things just come back, count your blessings. Count your bloody blessings, count them twice, because you don't know how good you've got it, if all you have to give up is your RP.

Ladies not growing back sounds like a problem that should be addressed, instead of making some kind of mechanic like residue.

Well having things easily destroyed that take player effort to replace is a different issue. If it really is that easy to cause "harm" and that easy to escape, I can see why there would be frustration. I know nothing at all about how trees or ladies work or why they matter so I can't really comment on it.

As far as the RP goes I don't think it is fair to say that ignoring someone who is doing annoyance raids is flushing RP down the toilet. I said I was sympathetic to the idea that people would not want to RP ignoring someone, but I don't think someone choosing to RP a different path should be dismissed so readily. It is very possible to have a strong and consistent IC personality that allows for you to ignore raids. To use an example that should be familiar to most people, Catarin played just such a character.

Discouraging the behavior =/= making it easier to recover the damages so you can get to ignoring things.

Ask Urazial, Nienla, Narsrim, Munsia, or anyone who has ever exhibited these sorts of behaviors why they do it, and see if you get a straight, real answer. Honestly, I'd love to know the true motivations, even if it's just "I was bored, and it seemed like fun at the time."

It is a different issue, but it becomes relevant because it's the lever they can use to ensure we can't use the 'ignore them' tactic. They wander in and out as long as we chase. If we stop chasing, they'd escalate to attacking mobs. If we stop that, they go to things that won't reset. Even if we all agreed to abandon the RP of protecting ourselves, each other, and our home, and even if we did it unanimously (Serenwilde doing something unanimously... hahahahah) so no one got chewed out for using your advice... they would still end up pushing to a point we couldn't ignore, by using trees and Ladies. That's why it's relevant.

I really don't see why some people are so against there being any mechanic at all. Doesn't seem to be any arguements against suggestions besides 'no I don't want that', it's just mostly 'no people just need to toughen up/ignore people'

It's even more time taken away from other things, when honestly the situation is solved by realizing that most mobiles on planes are irrelevant when it comes down to it. Not only that, but it drastically reduces the worth of some skills, level-based perks, and artifacts.

Right I get that, but the solution to this does not have to be a change in how hard it is to run (though again I think the sticky idea is a good one). Instead the focus should be on why is it so easy to cause "lasting" harm. Why do these things not reset? Why are they important to your org (to the point where you feel IC pressure to protect them)?

My ignore comments are all based on the fact that no lasting harm can be done to Celest based on one person who just hops in and out. If you do not have that option I think the possibility of changing it should at least be brought up.

Ladies/Daughters and elder trees get brought up all the time and nothing ever comes of it.

PS, I see another Lehki demesne in Faethorn right now. Hmph.

I was influencing fae. So we're not even allowed to be in faethorn without inciting a raid? =/

Actually, it's usually when you're doing the Druid run-around-in-the-demesne-for-an-hour thing that it incites something, heh. I just dislike it being left demesned because I don't get to clean it up.

Well, I know that does. And that's usually only done because the one person I was fighting turned into 2-4 and can only fight that by trying to separate you guys. ):

Need moar outlets for pvp that doesn't incite raids.

Start open wargames in Seren that you won't cancel into a group of guards.

Actually, if someone came up with a creative mechanic that addressed the specific issue without effecting tons of other things, I'd be open to it. The problem is, the only solutions provided (Like last time when distort got buffed/transplanar devices got nerfed (I say nerfed, you say never intended, not trying to bring that argument up again.) adversely affect the items in question - some of them severely, when using the item to accomplish something is a symptom of some other mechanic that's broken. I think trees/daughters have come up before, perhaps it's time to modify them finally. If the problem is specifically commune related (Trees don't instantly sprout back into elders/Daughters don't repop like angels/demons), maybe we need to look at that. I've never been in a commune, so I'm less educated in the problems you face, but as someone who's been on both sides of angels and demons, those things dying is not an issue.

But yes, I'm a credit whore, and I paid for my 2000 credit item in straight cash. So when people start throwing some of the ideas I've read here that involve handicapping my 2000 credit item MORE SO than it was, especially when I'm never involved in any of the practices mentioned, I do get a bit annoyed. I understand all items in Lusternia are owned by Lusternia, ect, ect, blah blah blah, but still, it's just bad business and rude to lease someone a Dodge Viper and later force them to lease a Pinto when they've already paid the lease in full. The distort change was annoying, but I settled with it because it involved only city discretionaries. Since on the occasion when I do raid it's not a hit and run, I've made peace with that. But when you start talking about stickiness every time you use it, or cooldowns between use and things like that, it seems absurd that such drastic actions are taken for such a minor problem.

If the real issue is trees/daughters, fix that. Or fix the transplanar devices issue, but with a solution that is very specific to the problem presented. What has been suggested so far is way to broad.

Also, there's nothing about breaking RP to run when you're alone/outmatched facing a horde of attackers. That's actually very much valid RP. I was trying to make that point. No one in their right mind runs into a situation that they KNOW is unwinnable/going to result in their death.

People weren't telling us to ignore the situation of a huge group camping territory, I'll tell people to not go running into that usually. We were being told to ignore the single person constantly running in and out and instantly disappearing as soon as opposition appears, then just atacking somewhere else or coming back an hour later. <,<