A big part of the problem is the way strong combatants cluster.

It results in extremely lopsided balance issues that just simply aren't any fun at all to play against for many people. It might be worth considering developing mechanisms that incentivize combatants to spread themselves out more. Right now, the practical incentive points towards "jump in with the biker gang and ride with them as they beat a class of pre-schoolers senseless."

I'm not sure what would be appropriate to apply here, but benefits like, say, nice org specific artifacts (akin to champ arties) that each org has a limited number (like, maybe 3 or so). Don't let org politics dictate who gets these- make an arena challenge mechanic- any other member of the org can challenge a holder for possession of the artifact, winner takes it until they lose it in a challenge.

Make it nice enough, and just maybe some people would spread out for the artie and the ego boost of having one.

Ok so to flesh out my suggestion, which was more aimed towards the hit-and-run bastards than raiding itself. Imho the hit-and-run thing is a direct link to raids, or one of.

Since most people get very annoyed by the hit-and-runners (called from hereon H&Rs) I think if they had a way to effectively snare them and kill them so that they would think twice about hit and running (since really you have no reason to NOT hit and run.) I think a lock out sort of thing would help with this. I'm sure that this scheme would probably be an undertaking in the coding department I still think it is worth suggesting. Since certain areas are usually the H&R I think this would limit where the lock outs would be placed so that only things like the Ethereal archways, or something (I've only really played Commune characters so I can't effectively think of any City area that has a "lock out" spot).. If you pass through that archway or whatever within a certain allotted time amount, you are "locked out" of using it again. Or the area could suddenly get really pissed off at you for cutting trees or killing angels that you get like paralyzed for a time. I dunno, something to make it challenging to go in and destroy trees or statues.

Maybe that's a little on the OP side, but tis just a suggestion. I can't really think of anything else beyond telling everyone to just wipe the slates clean, seeing as most of this is based on past actions/transgressions. What Xenthos did as a Regent won't be the same as Talan, yet people see the org the same as they did back when things first started. Instead of updating the image or refreshing it, most are just reusing what was there and smearing more paint on.

Since I have no real suggestions beyond what I've said I'll bow out of the conversation and hopefully not reply any more. I will merely watch the thread since it is my one steady form of entertainment really that ceases to get old or boring.

Convenient how an artifact that is completely unrelated to raiding is being used to raid right now.

Let's keep on topic, folks. When I started this thread, I said it would be monitored and snarky, sarcastic, trollish posts would not be tolerated. If you have want to discuss agendas not relevant here, you are free to start your own thread. Let's try to be civil and constructive!




I really don't think this would work, artifacts or benefits would just be hoarded by the old guard--and why not, they're putting the most into the org so why shouldn't they benefit from any perks. Also, I'm not sure why orgs can't offer incentives for fighters to join them right now. Gold, power, prestige, etc.

You do raise a good point, though. Anyone else have ideas how to spread fighters out?

There's no foolproof way to do that unless 'stop having e-friends' becomes a requirement, unfortunately.

More constructively, I think this is more something an org has to do than anything that has to be hardcoded in.

I honestly think that is something out of admin control, and given the recent changes as of late, shouldn't be something influenced either. People will go where they want to go. Eventually, the shift in power will change. For now, it lies with Glomdoring. It's just something that is the way it is right now. We have three organizations geared against us, but we're not complaining.

It won't work, at least not some hard-coded way of it. The best you could do is offer perks for say, Vathael to go join Celest and you give him a special little shiny or something. But that's a dumb way to go about it. Fact is, you could try and force people to go join another org. I'd quit over that. I'm sure I'm not the only one. There's really no way you can spread the fighters out at all. Personally, most people I know would go to Mag if they were a new person hoping to become a fighter. It's just that kind of city. Glomdoring next. Then Celest, then Serenwilde.

You would make a lot of people unhappy if you started trying to force fighters into cities to maintain some kind of quota or offered perks for people that obviously don't need more of them.

Because you're the only org with guild skills that overthrow the other guilds, at the moment.

Still think the playing field needs evened out, and Longnight definitely needs envoyed

Do we honestly need any more hardcoded ways to make raiding harder? You have discretionary powers, shrine effects, Smobs just got made stronger, among other things. Seriously, the situations could be far worse than what they are. You don't need to make raiding any more difficult. Unless you're just trying to encourage off-hour raiding, which is all this seems to be doing.

Or you just don't know how to use yours, which I'm more inclined to believe.

And feel free to envoy Longnight, a good bulk of us agree that it's OP. However, we expect something in return for the heavy power cost of 105p that comes associated with it.

Kind of like how Fain tempted Vathael back to Mag from Seren and restored him in that order pretty quick, etc.? This is actually probably the best way for admin to be involved in the shift of power, which is to say, completely IC.

Which is why positive incentives are better. Then the players would willingly spread them out to take advantage of the incentives. The admin wouldn't be forcing a thing, just creating positive reinforcement. Of course, this only works if the incentive is a strong one, and probably one that shouldn't be tied to org politics.

Saying it is purely in the player's hands isn't necessarily the best medicine either. Look at how long glom was down. To a lesser extent, how long has celest been out of it? Throw in the feedback loop of combatants attracting combatants, and you can very easily wind up with a situation as skewed as the current one, which isn't really good for anything other than "always a sure thing" sort of one sided conflicts.

Finally, there's no force other than what has happened in the past that says power will cycle around. That it has happened in the past is fortunate, but relying on past data to predict the future is, at best, always dicey. I'm not saying take a fire hose to the glom super-demigod-combatant-katamari, but, if the activity levels that helped spawn this thread are any indication, dramatic skewing in any direction isn't really a good thing.

Personally, I know of a few people who either aren't around as much period, or are at best alting due to the way the fighting is now. I know I've considered it, and I'm hardly in the thick of things. But I'm also stubborn and probably not entirely sane.

Mm. I personally believe that if the fair-weather combatants came out of the woodwork to help their orgs when they are down instead of just relishing in victory, Glomdoring would be in a much different situation right now.

I didn't really explain that clearly.

What I interpreted from Estarra's post was 'How can we, OOCly, divide the fighters up better?'

I'm not sure how Fain did it, but it sounded like it was RP-related. I don't have any particular problem with that.

But, back to the original idea, I'd lay it out like this:

Each org gets two or three (or whatever) artifacts that do *useful cool thing here*

Each artifact is held by one person. Any other person in the commune can challenge said person for that artifact- org politics has no control over this, it's just tied into the nature of the artifact. Winner of challenge holds artifact until another member of the same org can take it from them in a challenge.

So, if an org is lacking in strong combatants, a decent fighter could probably be assured getting an artifact for ego/mechanics.

As it is purely a positive incentive, there's no aspect of forcing what so ever. It's just an attraction that may help alleviate the problems that come disproportionate gluts of combatants in one place, like we have now. (and probably in a small way).

The biggest problem I see with it is figuring out what would be a sufficient enough reward to tempt fighters to spread out of their own accord, without over doing it.

The problem with gold and credit incentives to me is, a strong org probably has more people buying credits, meaning they're already at an advantage in ability to spend. We need things that work against the feedback loop of combatants drawing combatants.

I have several times sat back and debated whether I should stay in Glom. I am not a top fighter, but I'm competent enough, and I can help out an org when needed. My general MUD playing style is to gravitate towards weaker organizations - it's far more fun to fix things, for me, and help build a group up.

However, every time I ask myself this, I remind myself that I'm a GM, I have newbs who would feel hurt if I left, and, quite frankly, as Shuyin says, I have e-friends in Glom. Even for the sake of game balance (something I feel is important) it's hard to talk yourself into doing something that will cost you money, let people down and potentially be less fun than your current gameplay.

I just got an idea for really curbing raids, both repetitive solo hit-and-runs and group raids (of any size).

New discretionary power: peace. Turn an off-Prime territory into a peaced area, so this would not affect Faethorn, nor would it include Astral for wild nodes or anything. Then those specific areas (Faethorn and Astral) can be everyone's free-PK FFA-fest, if you so choose. The new discretionary should act like the discretionaries did before the admin removed constructs: have no power cost, last the same amount of time as ripple/distort/surge/liveforest/whatever, and can be raised whenever. Give this ability to either CR6s or only to those with a Court/Council position. To curb off-peak raids, give the option to spend a reasonable amount of power (200-300, or 150 with wild nodes) so that the discretionary lasts for 25 Lusternian days.

Narsrim attacking Aspects? Bam, peaced.

Celina raiding Supernals / Demon Lords? Bam, peaced.

I'm not sure if peaced rooms prevent bashing as well, but if so, then if Gloms are harvesting the Elemental planes... well, there's the solution.

I understand that the likelihood of this happening is very slim, almost zero, but it was worth a mention. After all, peacing the Aetherplex Chamber has done wonders. I can shop without worrying about getting stuck in an enemy demesne!

EDIT: I meant liveforest, not treelife. It's late and I'm tired.

That...doesn't curb raiding, that kicks it out the door on it's ass. Raids would never happen again.

I did say it would really curb raiding!

Not to mention all organization conflict (except that that occurs before the defenders can get there). They're after Supernals/DLs? Bam, peaced. And yes, peaced rooms do prevent bashing. They act like you're under grace, effectively.

EDIT: Yes, I realise this a joke. Please, please let it be a joke.