I see no cause to say that jesters are vanilla play. I go back here to my first decree: one converted one, the mod made another to be. This time our one had a slow start by converting one to a ghostly part.

At least now I'm certain that for my next mafia game it won't be "first come first served".

Anyway, I still wonder if we won't be hearing another Jester today. Since the Ghost Buster acts more like a killer, having the Buster eliminate Xavius can turn out to be risky as we might just lynch the other Jester accidentally.

Anyway, looking back I'm very certain that the Ghost Busters were the first to get converted on Night 0, along with Xavius. We were at the start of day 1 told that there were three non-vanillas ghosting around. The jokers are pretty much by definition not vanilla. Having two joker roles around suggests that we started with two jokers (as the only other explanation for having more than two non-vanilla at day 1 would be having the joker jokify multiple characters, unlikely as Casilu wouldn't want to use the same method twice). So we can deduct that there were another two possible conversions tonight. Now the jokers may not be able to speak to each other, however, assuming we have two jokers, then we'll have two conversions each night. It is possible that one joker missed, but it is impossible for the other joker to miss. Xavius was converted by one of them, and the one who DIDN'T convert Xavius will know both who the Ghost-buster is, and who the other Joker converted. Hence that joker would be guaranteed a conversion tonight. The next two conversions after Xavius must be the remaining two members of the Jester trio. Putting those together, we can deduce that, since there was no change in the number of non-vanilla, the Jesters count as Vanilla for some reason.

Those are my thoughts at least.

Xavius, I didn't understand a word of that.

Or, rather, what I think you're saying is that "There are three jokers". Correct?

An interesting theory, and while I do not agree, it holds water sealed tight; can't say it's not right.

While I like to make my thoughts clear as can be, the rhymes don't set my pedantry free. Perhaps another player will be so kind as to explain the meaning from his own mind.

Rhymes and no edit! Curses be! That last posted was intended for the one before me.

Well, it does need us to take some implications for true, namely that there are two jokers and that the jokers would convert at any opportunity, but I think it's highly likely, as this also makes it impossible for the Penguin to unjesterify the jesters.

Rhymes inadequately express what's held deep in my breast.

Anyway, I think Xavius is suggesting that there's one Joker (for the time being) and that Casilu made one be auto-converted at night 0.

So, a joker, a ghostbuster, and... a something else? I would guess a jester (or whatever it is that converts vanillas).

Oh shush. The English language is like a petridish for new words, when it isn't mugging other languages for em. I'm not gonna treat the English language seriously if you paid me to do it.

One other possibility, which I like better than "both jokers count as vanilla for no reason", is that there's only one, he got two-three free converts instead of one night one, and his second night convert was a sheet which is why the vanilla count remained the same. Also if no one posted all game (haven't checked yet) one could be a grey lady that guessed lucky. Possibly the second joker will be unlocked later to prevent a massive overdose of role conversion.

Although that would make Xavius a liar. Which is easily testable if we make sure everyone's posted today and no one else is spouting rhymes.

this is not sure-fire, as the part where the jesters have to rhyme may or may not be included in the roles.

Joker and jester are not the same. Their similarity is only in name. Your equivocation here makes words and math unclear.

Pretty sure I'm talking about joker the whole time, hence my lack of use of the word "jester" or any description of its concept...

I just realised Kira said it would be jesters counting as vanilla, which is at least less horrible than jokers counting as vanilla (which, if true, makes me wonder if the jesters aren't a safe lynch before all 3 show up...if we lynch ALL the rhymers the joker makes much less progress and we run no risk of jester win by incompetent SK), but my theory is still a possibility...I think.

Where did this theory that jesters are vanilla come from? Vanilla are vanilla. Jesters are jesters.

No change in the number of non-vanilla tonight, and we know that the converted tonight were Jesters

"Ro, Sham, Bo. Jester trio. If one is converted, the next two conversions will yield the other two. "

We also know that, one or two converters, there should be a Joker who knows who is converted and who not. Assuming that the Joker is going to spend every night trying to achieve his win condition, he'll spend every night converting. So there was most likely a conversion tonight.

Conversion tonight + next conversions are Jesters + no change in the number of non-vanilla = Jesters (not jokers) count as Vanilla.

We have hashed out the whole "lynch jesters" thing a while back. Please read the rules on the first page carefully. Especially rule 15.

No, we don't know that. We know Xavius is speaking in rhymes for some reason. We have no idea whether or not this is because he has to or because he thinks it's a good smokescreen.

And @Fern:



It's the rhyming bit in brackets, not the "one of you has to be nightkilled" bit. If your argument is that we can't tell who the 2nd and 3rd jesters are because they mightn't have to rhyme, the same thing goes for any nightkillers that might turn up later. That doesn't actually help us any. Unless your plan is to wait for a penguin or similar, which isn't exactly hard to fake and impossible for us to verify, how are we supposed to deal with it?