His conversation with Diamondais. The constant attack of people but at the same time saying "but I don't really think they are scum." He is being wishy washy with his words.

He is also trying very hard to avoid direct confrantation with more than 1 person at any given time.

There is also his hypocrasy (voting for people who switch votes, when he does the same. Going on a rant and then saying other people are acting odd because of rants. etc.)

And this is all in addition to the things I pointed out some 10 pages ago. (maybe more?)

I have a suspicion I'll be lynched some time I'm offline so I'm trying to cover a lot of the bases (is Diamondais scummy for that silliness yesterday? No, probably not, just "other stuff") so that when it becomes obvious I know what I'm talking about it's harder for the scum to lead everyone the wrong way. By no means is clarifying people's likely alignment while still calling out bad ideas "wishywashy."


Still willing to confront Casilu, it's just that you are hiding from it for whatever reason. Similarly Siam is giving me scum tells but minimal attention is being paid to it. A good chunk of the town is bandwagoning mindlessly with you and another chunk is avoiding committing to anything so they don't get accused of bandwagoning mindlessly. The rest have their own targets for various reasons, some of them quite valid, so since I know at least some of these targets are better lynches than me, I'm going for the one with the best reasonable/likely combination at any given time.


Oh dear, you -were- serious. Well, this one will become clear tomorrow too, although this one shouldn't really have been beyond you to begin with, hmm...

(P.S can you point out the part where I voted for people "who switch votes"? It seems like there would have been more to it than that...)

The only "scummy" thing Dugan is doing, is voting for Kira. He was voting for Kira, and that argument existed before you voted for Furien.

So you either find Dugan scummy now because of a OMGUS, or for his switching of votes, like others mentioned. (second OMGUS of the day?)

At the time that you voted for Dugan, Furien and Dugan both had equal votes excluding your own.

And what are we going to find out "tommorow" except that we lynched scum?

Hmm, yeah, I must have misjudged the votecounts, that would explain it. It wasn't "for changing votes", as you can clearly see from the very quotes you posted...


Ok, now you're just doing it on purpose. OBVIOUSLY what I said only applies to townies if I am also town. It doesn't apply to you if you're scum, and there's not even any point discussing it if you're somehow town and genuinely think I'm scum...(FoS: Daganev because he is racking up way too many instances of things he ought to know better than to say/read, expecting another "omgus" complaint here but whatever)

The only new arguments, between the 4 pages of those quotes was that Dugan was switching votes. (and the fun little rant you had against Diamondais)



No, there is nothing obvious about what you said. You keep hinting at tommorow as if when you die some new information will be revealed and "will become clear tomorrow"....
In a game where we have all the info about our roles, I'm not sure what cryptic thing you could be refering to. (unless you are scum)

I get the feeling Shiri, that you can't remember what you wrote or why you wrote it, and are ony looking at the quotes as if it's new information, seeing it for the first time.

The quotes I posted were to remind you of the context, but apparently you are only looking at those quotes in a vaccum.

Because when I'm dead no one will be able to claim I'm scum...that's "new" information for the people currently ignoring what I'm pointing out and bandwagoning me, as well as the people who aren't sure either way, so they can take whatever I'm saying now as being honest (taking my limited knowledge as a townie into account, so it's not foolproof) rather than having a scummy agenda. So for example, maybe we'll get more people giving Casilu's scum tells consideration, or Siam's, and avoiding pressuring Diamondais too much by comparison despite her behaviour.

But you aren't/weren't pointing out anything!

Really now Shiri, had you not said I was having a hissy fit when I was quite calm (in fact I only said I was beginning to lose my temper after your tantrums), I wouldn't be doing this back and forth bantering we have going now.

Huh? Yes I am...what exactly are you trying to say doesn't fit that bill? I even gave examples...

@Dia: Well, you seem to have made your own justifications so nothing I could say is going to change anything here...I'm just using you as an example because even given what you've been doing it's probably not scumminess that's the actual cause.

I just expect more explanation and less random comments from you.

You said Casilu was acting like how you might when you ran a cult, but there is no cult in this game. I haven't seen anything that you wrote point out any real scumtells. You keep talking about them without really pointing them out.

Very similar to Dugan's "Kira feels off to me." Except now you seem to be implying that you've said more than that.

I did. You misunderstood the point of my cult comment there. It's nothing about the cult mechanic itself. It's more that when I was cult that time, and Celina was doctor (I think I legitimately thought she was scum at the time, but the point was she wasn't on my side) I deliberately provoked her and kept reasserting our "positions" in terms of standing in the debate - kind of like trying to shift burden of proof - pointing out the frustration she was feeling because of it, hammered it in and so on. Firstly it's a kind of "branding" for the benefit of the townies with weaker independent thinking instincts, secondly it throws the victim off their game. Casilu was trying to do the same thing to me. It isn't something townies really need to do, least of all because they can't be confident they're right, so it's likely a scum tell. Actually, if anyone remembers the last time Casilu was scum it would be educational to go back and see if she did the same thing any previous times, I don't think she gets a lot of experience at it - or at least I remember her modding more than her playing.

And for another example of something I already specified, Siam's case: amongst other things, he called out the strategy as "unfair" (re: lynching people for having roles that would have made good scum, I think.) This is a great example of something an inexperienced scum is likely to say when in danger of being lynched for a reason that kind of would have been "unfair", insofar as mafia can be, but not an aspect of it a townie is likely to focus on even when the same conditions apply. It's not as conclusive as Casilu's up there, combined with all the other details of the situation of each, but it's definitely worth paying attention to.

Which also sounds quite a bit like you're trying to do to me, at least from how I see it.

Fyi, if somehow Shiri and I both survive to night, he's not getting a night action. He's getting roleblocked tonight.

Which is a great way to stop me grabbing aqua rake, which if I didn't cast it tomorrow and waste Kefka's time would probably get me lynched anyway (Xavius, if Ultros and I both go for Kira do I still get the power?)

As many actions as can be reasonably resolved will be. I don't think there's anything weird that's going to require an order of precendence.

Short answer is yes.

If I were either killer, why would I roleblock you instead of trying to kill you? If I were the eater (nom nom nom), I would simply kill you and be done with it. If I were our arsonist, I'd set you up to be ignited. If you Aquaraked the next day, I lost nothing that I would have lost trying to roleblock you. In fact, by not roleblocking you, I gain an advantage because you cannot copy the same power twice.


So, why would I roleblock you unless I was certain you were scum?

Can we get a votecount?

Also, @Daganev: if Shiri goes for the rake (which will be easy to confirm), there's no reason to have him lynched today. If he doesn't use the rake, we can also easily confirm that, and have him lynched tomorrow. I'm inclined to give Shiri the benefit of the doubt, especially if it undoes our arsonist (at least partially).

Actually, the more I think about it, UNVOTE | VOTE: DAGANEV. He keeps pressing for a Shiri to be lynched (potential aqua rake). I suspect that he's the arsonist because of this.

(I'll change my vote if Dag agrees to let Shiri live at least one more day, so he can undo the first dousing).

Don't know where to start, but a few things you are suggesting is not making sense.

1. If I was the arsonist, I wouldn't have removed my vote from Kira when the bandwagon was getting started. IF you remember, I was the person who said that we shouldn't lynch Kira/Dugan day 1. If I was the arsonist, I never would have brought that up, and I could have let Kira be lynched, and never worry about Shiri being able to get the aqua rake. If anything, it would imply that Dugan might be the arsonist because of his reluctance to give up the vote on Kira.

2. Let's say Shiri is scum. There are two possible scenarios here.
A. Shiri is the arsonist. Uses his ability as the theif to steal the skill, and uses it day 2. He then "proves" he is good, and the next night he uses his real arsonist powers and we have no idea about. (cause he can't steal any powers that night anyways).
B. Shiri is the SK. He steals the power from Kira. doesn't use it cause he thinks Kira is scum and tries to lynch her with him being the "backup". If that fails, he kills her at night, and he becomes the only one with aqua rake. He then uses that to "prove" that he is town.

Either way, Shiri looks like town, and we have nothing to tell us otherwise. We also lose a lot of resources trying to figure out if Shiri is still scum or not instead of looking at the 3 or 4 other current suspects. This means, all of our resources are focused on 1 person instead of many, making it that much harder to find out who the other scum person is.

If you have a good way of proving that Shiri is not scum tonight, I'd like to hear it. But right now, regardless of if Shiri is scum or not, his night action should be the same thing. Use the thief power at night, confirm it during the day, then kill that night since he can't steal two days in a row.

But if we use the aqua rakes too early, then we're effed if we don't catch Kefka in time. You're also assuming that Kefka will even douse the first night. As Daganev pointed out, there is at least one case when not using the fuel douse would be to Kefka's advantage.

Shiri also thinks that Ultros is gonna eat me, but keeping me alive is beneficial to Ultros, because he has the chance to be protected by my Aqua Rake. Xavius has already admitted that Ultros and Kefka are separate entities, so they won't coordinate their killing strategies.