I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other, but this argument is silly. It's like saying if someone's house burns down it's okay because at some point they were able to earn the money to build it with in the first place, so they can do it again.

The more I think about it though the more I think stealing from a shop should just not be allowed, if it's simple to code. This is a video game we're talking about, not legislation that will govern a country. Penalties incurred in a video game should be a direct result of the player making a gameplay oriented mistake. If you get killed bashing you are either an inferior combatant than the person jumping you, or you weren't able to heal and run away. If you die bashing then you tried to take on something too strong, or something to that effect.

What mistake did a person who got their shop robbed make? They were forgetful? That's not good enough for me to say there should be a gameplay mechanic that allows a person to be punished for that.

They were too stupid to own a shop. The penalty is the exact same for PK or bashing deaths. You make a gameplay mistake and forgot to sigil your stockroom. You made a gameplay mistake and let someone follow you into your stockroom.

Is the fact that you didn't scent while you were bashing not good enough? The fact that you were taking a nice moonlit walk around celest when you're an enemy? The mistake is the same degree of stupid. Please refrain from trying to make it sound lesser.

And if it isn't lesser. Then we should disallow PK, because god forbid someone kills someone else. Hugfest2012 is violence free and we don't allow your petty bloodletting

Watch the attitudes and comments. Missing an eye sigil or accidentally pricing all of them because there's so much stuff in your stockroom (it's not uncommon for the contents to be so long I can't actually view a list of every object in the room without changing my client/logging it and opening the log. They're -that- monstrous) does not necessarily qualify someone as 'too stupid to own a shop'.

The penalty is significantly higher and adds nothing, whereas PK conflict does in fact actually add to Lusternia (I mean, Lusternia is based around it).

I also note that you're not arguing benefits of allowing it, you're falling into the same tired-old "blame the victim" mindset ("it's the victim's fault so we shouldn't change anything"). Not exactly a convincing argument, I feel. But I guess we'll see, the lines have pretty much been drawn and the points laid out, heh. Up to Estarra to make the decision.

This is why you can attatch a qualifier like "Key Sigil" to your IH command.

"IH KEY SIGIL"

"IH EYE SIGIL"

People keep saying it shouldn't be allowed. I don't like for the admin to coddle players and try to make things too easy. If we disallow shop theft, why not personal theft by skills? TP users can't dominate to empty/drop/give things, neither can pooka, or Caco Darkmaster.

Let me rephrase my statement then, since I wasn't clear enough.

I'm not arguing that it adds anything or takes away anything persay. I'm stating that it is the representation of the realism that I found appealing to Lusternia when I first started playing.

Since about a year and a half ago, or somewhere around that time period. Lusternia has started to cut out realistic features and dumb it down to be more agreeable with people who seem more suited to a game like Maplestory or the Sims. I can also understand why they are doing it, you don't want to lose money. I agree. I wouldn't either.

There were a bunch of complaints that I just didn't understand. People whining about "blah blah", "cindy stole my dollie", "Munsia keeps rubbing her buttocks on my nexus" Okay, yeah. It can get out of hand, but it's NOT THAT BAD.

The point is that if we continue to remove conflict purely because john (who obviously is the kind of person who puts his keys in the freezer), doesn't feel like he should be robbed if he leaves his stockroom door open. Then this game is going to turn into a social interaction game like all the other boring ones, except ours wont have graphics.

Slippery slope, alas. Though that could be argued I suppose, I doubt they're interested in discussing that right now.

I would be interested in hearing the benefits you see in allowing shop theft, though. Not the fears of what it might lead to (as that's a very nebulous argument and could very well be pointless), but the actual positive that would make you say, "Omg, yes, we should keep it because it is cool for this reason!"

Most of the arguments are, "It should be easy to secure your shop," but that's not value added. :/

I don't think shop theft should be "allowed" per se, but I also think it's like you said, a slippery slope. Where does it stop? Next, we'll complain that we shouldn't be killed when defending our homes, and everyone gets autoconglute at adept Planar or double your max hp on friendly territory.

I'm with Daed up there. I don't want Lusternia to turn into another Maplestory, where we basically talk on aethers and hang out all over the place.

If you are such a fan of conflict oriented games, then surely you agree that such games should be balanced, right? What is balanced about a person making one mistake that has nothing to do with your ability to fight or cure or do anything else related to your ability to play the game, but can cost you weeks or months worth of time?

Answer: It's not balanced.

You say you want things to be realistic, but you're arguing fiction. There's nothing realistic about entering a command to price your wares and accidentally hitting the security device.

In case you were unaware, real shop owners don't accidentally sell their security cameras.

#alias {eye_price} {price all eye 1 gold;unprice eye12345}
#alias {mono_price} {price all monolith 1 gold;unprice monolith12345}
#alias {palm_price} {price all palm 1 gold;unprice palm12345}
#alias {key_price} {price all key 1 gold;unprice key12345}

Shop security 101.

I have owned a shop or multiple shops in every IRE there is, except MKO, and have never been robbed.

This isn't "life", it's a friggin game.

And Daereth, Lusternia is anything but realistic. I would go so far as to say it's more fair and balanced than it is realistic, and those are two things I would never ever say about Lusternia. If you're after realism, try... the real world.

what

I daresay 9 times out of 10, people who do rob shops don't do it for the gold. They do it to cause spite and to add to their epeen.

Just something to consider.

Rika has the right of it. Most items you'd rob from a shop are basically useless unless you have a shop yourself... the herbs, kegs and cubes would be nice to have, but what are you going to do with piles of blank runestones, paintings, trousers, fruit kabobs, etc.?

On the other hand, everyone strokes their epeen in their own way. Combat, theft, killing npcs, winning artisinals, ect, ect, ect.

There's always someone losing out. That's what life (and multiplayer games) always have. Winners and losers. There's no "everyone wins always and is happy and doesn't lose anything" Without loss, there's not emotional investment, without emotional investment, the game becomes boring.

Having your stockroom emptied out is not the same as having npcs killed or losing a bardic competition. An org's npcs dying costs them absolutely nothing, unless it's a guard, and... ah screw it I don't know how some of you can even tie your shoes.

You know what the balance for theft is? Common Sense. Yes, not many people have this elusive aspect. But more people should get some nonetheless.



Of course it's not. You know why? Because we keep accommodating the people who go emo when they get poked in the arm.

I've had lots of thefts. Some I'm not even sure HOW it happened (sigils were brand new, and dissapeared inside and out of the shop, noone following). Some people exploited bugs. Some exploited skills.

I was devastated by the last one so badly, I just gave my manse away. Several million in gold, and at least several hundred thousand in merchandise gone. Took everything, even took the sigils and letters.

So based on personal experiences, I would like higher theft protection, at least with a 1000cr+150k shop.

Understanding all of the possible abilities and loopholes that could lead to theft is not 'common sense'. It's not something you're born with. It takes a pretty good overall knowledge of the game's mechanics.



Durrrr durrrr *drool* Guess who just lost all credibility (besides me).