So this kinda plays into the 'winning org' syndrome. I have been thinking the domoth system needs something to make it a bit more feasible for the opposing side to break the stranglehold alliances can get on them, and to limit the exhausting, constant 'defence mode' needed when god forbid, you actually do manage to steal a domoth!

IDEA: A section of domothean aetherspace where the thrones extend that allows an org which -doesn't- currently hold a domoth to bombard the throne, diminishing the amount of time left on the blessing, with the potential of forcing it to drop a level if the timer reaches zero.

Would allow orgs without domoths an active means of changing domoth statuses at a time convenient to -them-, rather than always having to steal/defend.

(Also, absolves forcing absolver/defender orgs only, go!)

EDIT: Might see more aethercombat too!

No to allowing ships to destroy domoths, thats just a bad idea all around.

Yeah... I don't think that'd "fix" winning org momentum at all, really. It'd also just result in a big pile of grief; people would wait until the other org have few people left and launch their massive fleets to bombard the throne to oblivion. And since people already complain about off-peak raiding, this would just make that ten times worse, since the loss is actually far more tangible.

I do think that aethercombat should be looked at though. It always seemed to me like it was the easiest to totally automate and do on zombie mode, then win through just having superior numbers. I think all that's stopped people from doing this is lazyness...

Ssaliss:

Yeah... I don't think that'd "fix" winning org momentum at all, really. It'd also just result in a big pile of grief; people would wait until the other org have few people left and launch their massive fleets to bombard the throne to oblivion. And since people already complain about off-peak raiding, this would just make that ten times worse, since the loss is actually far more tangible.

From my perspective, this is already what other side does when we have a domoth. Massive group up, absolve! In current form, only chance an org has of breaking the current status is to steal in an attempted upgrade. Yet when they do manage a steal, you're then on constant defence mode.

(I do think the absolve/defender org only idea would help more!)

EDIT: Also, nothing preventing the holder to defend against domoth bombardment themselves! In my head this is a bit like old weakenings, but more aethercombat oriented.

Enyalida:

I do think that aethercombat should be looked at though. It always seemed to me like it was the easiest to totally automate and do on zombie mode, then win through just having superior numbers. I think all that's stopped people from doing this is lazyness...

During a recent domoth upgrade, Xenthos solo'd a ship full of HalliSerenMags. He was pilot/turret, and all he did was blast their ship out. It's not laziness...it's more of, using the ship affs isn't needed when your opponent can just die to a simple strip shield/turret fire (and sometimes the strip shield isn't even needed). Marmuckle, marwurble, etc. are sort of unused (and they don't need to be).

Ushaara:

From my perspective, this is already what other side does when we have a domoth. Massive group up, absolve! In current form, only chance an org has of breaking the current status is to steal in an attempted upgrade. Yet when they do manage a steal, you're then on constant defence mode.

(I do think the absolve/defender org only idea would help more!)

That last absolve that freed Harmony wasn't "massive group up, absolve!". There were around even numbers, but we just had the advantage of having more melders (which, imo, is more a 'fault' of melds rather than the domoth system).

In fact, during the claim for Harmony when it went free, Celest had no meld while MagHalliSeren had Shedrin (I think it was Shedrin). There were also about even numbers, because Glomdoring couldn't help while there were no Gaudis around. I'm not so sure it's actually a fault of the domoth system (which, again imo, has enough restrictions already).

If it wasn't clear, my main gripe with current incarnation of domoths is that for the side without, they are forced into a reactionary position, with the holding side always seeming to have the initiative. It is this one-sided reactionary nature that makes them frustrating for me. My idea was an attempt to allow the non-holders to show a bit more initiative.

Edit: Was being flippant with the 'Massive group up, absolve!' comment, (though it often feels like that :()

Well, then that's the purpose of fluxes. When domoths flux, both sides are without. You can just upgrade to crown level and lose the worry of being absolved (unless you're a demigod, but then again, Shedrin's a VA).

That last absolve that freed Harmony wasn't "massive group up, absolve!". There were around even numbers, but we just had the advantage of having more melders (which, imo, is more a 'fault' of melds rather than the domoth system).

Lies.
Me(went up once), Vadi, vs Munsia(didn't go up), Tulemrah, Shedrin, Enyalida
I blame Shuyin. So OP.

My main gripe with domoths is being left out when Celest holds the opposite. :(

A couple of things:
Bombarding Domoths is just an awkward idea on numerous fronts. It seems basically intended to force 'more upkeep' for... little particular reason.

The absolve mechanic fulfills the role of knocking Domoths out, and fulfills it well; I'll even note that Harmony lost its crown when it tried to absolve Chaos (Hallifax -> Glomdoring absolve attempt). This is how the system is supposed to work, with organizations attempting to wrest control of the domoths, to fight each other, and give Demigods a conflict outlet.
It's actually been doing that very well recently!

Second, there are already two existing mechanics in place which give a huge advantage to the 'other side' (the one that does not control any domoths). First, flux takes out all the crowns and makes the Domoths free. It gives a randomized dormancy time, so it's not up to the schedule of one side or the other... whoever's available when they go free wins. The second is that if one organization controls a Domoth, it can not involve itself in the attempt when the other Domoth in its pairing is in play. This allows for a 3 on 2 situation, which Hallifax has been taking advantage of recently.

Hallifax also got quite a bit of power from the Domoths it held while it held them (the upside), it got the Domoth blessings, and it has some pretty hot prospects for picking up some more. Who knows? The next one you pick up may have better dormancy timing and allow you to spam-absolve the other side (I don't really foresee Hallifax being able to hold one and, say, Seren holding the other at this precise point, the 3v2 in the other direction would be a bit rough).

It's kind of odd to see the system being used in exactly the way it is supposed to be, when it hasn't in so long, and then reading complaints about it though. Any attempts to make it 'easier' than it already is will in the end just benefit us when you hold one and we want to take it back...

Again, main gripe is one-sided reactionary part. Sure you can lose an absolve attempt which knocks you down, but other side still has the reactionary aspect.

Fair point on the fluxing/dormancy thing, guess that's just like not being around for villages/flares.

Again frustration is coming from the "Oh, they're absolving again!" leading to "What's the point? They'll just absolve!" mindset, without being able to do anything that would force the opposing side onto their back foot.

Ushaara:

Again, main gripe is one-sided reactionary part. Sure you can lose an absolve attempt which knocks you down, but other side still has the reactionary aspect.

Fair point on the fluxing thing, guess that's just like not being around for villages/flares.

Again frustration is coming from the "Oh, they're absolving again!" leading to "What's the point? They'll just absolve!" mindset, without being able to do anything that would force the opposing side onto their back foot.

If Hallifax had won the absolve it tried, it would indeed have accomplished that goal. The exact same scenario could have played out, just with our side on the 'repeatedly try to upgrade' end.

Also, if Shedrin had upgraded yesterday, he would've had a really good chance. Chaos lost the Crown, so we would've both been up to crown again at the same time (I'd have upgraded yesterday instead of absolving). The thing would have reset entirely to where it started.

But you're a TA and he's a VA, so you would have just kept absolving, and we'd be forced into even more reactionary fights. The point isn't that we could have done something differently to keep the domoth, it's that it's exhausting to do so. You seem to be saying that we should just be prepared to jump into a full scale brawl at any moment, which is not how I want to spend my game time. Some way to force others to react on -our- time is all Ushaara was trying to suggest.

TAs have no bonus over VAs, except in the Seal they ascended in (which would be Nature for Xynthin, and Nature has no opposite, anyway). You could absolve Xynthin, and not the other way around, then we'd be reactionary.

Absolving is problematic because it can be done at any time, and is remedied somewhat by being restricted to only being initiated by the opposing domoth. If anyone from anywhere can start a bombard on a throne at any time (except during the claim), I expect the end consequence is that no one will go past orb level again ever, because we'll all be so persistent and sneaky enough with when we attack that it will just be unfeasible to manage. People will get sick of it and no one will bother. I do not seeing the bombard idea fixing the issue of the exhaustion problem with domoths.

The other issue is, even if you do restrict when you do it, how do you do so? We mostly seem to accomplish this through semi-random openings, like with flares and revolts, but I don't think more of that would be appreciated, nor necessarily make it more fun.

If the issue is with absolving, it might be more prudent to adjust how absolving functions instead.

Did everyone forget the bit about only allowing orgs who hold no domoths the ability to do this?

Razenth:

Did everyone forget the bit about only allowing orgs who hold no domoths the ability to do this?

Yes, this was what I was hoping would be the limiting factor alright.

To reiterate, some means of initiating a change for those who are otherwise 'locked out' excepting stealing during upgrades, was the original intention. Like all things, am sure the idea has its flaws.

Lilia:

But you're a TA and he's a VA, so you would have just kept absolving, and we'd be forced into even more reactionary fights. The point isn't that we could have done something differently to keep the domoth, it's that it's exhausting to do so. You seem to be saying that we should just be prepared to jump into a full scale brawl at any moment, which is not how I want to spend my game time. Some way to force others to react on -our- time is all Ushaara was trying to suggest.

As far as Domoths go, Shedrin and I are exactly the same. Nobody can absolve Nature, and that's my strong (read: protected) Domoth.

I mean, he did start an absolve on his own! When we were both at Crown level, no less. Choosing when to absolve = reacting on your own time. That's what we were doing. We just had the edge because his first absolve failed.

The only problem I have with absolves is that the absolver get 3 hours to complete it. (Or was it 2? I think it was 3...) So the defending side has to, at a time picked by the attackers, hold them out of this place for over 2 hours, even more if it's a fast claiming ascendant. It's an exhausting task to have react to possibly multiple times in a week.

That one time recently that we managed to block an absolve? We held control of that place for really long time, and we still only were a few seconds away from losing it. <_<

Lehki:

The only problem I have with absolves is that the absolver get 3 hours to complete it. (Or was it 2? I think it was 3...) So the defending side has to, at a time picked by the attackers, hold them out of this place for over 2 hours, even more if it's a fast claiming ascendant. It's an exhausting task to have react to possibly multiple times in a week.

That one time recently that we managed to block an absolve? We held control of that place for really long time, and we still only were a few seconds away from losing it. <_<

It's two hours, during which you need to be in the room for one hour (forty minutes if an Ascendant is doing an absolve, thirty minutes if it is a True Ascendant who ascended through the Domoth that they are absolving with).

Blocking it actually isn't that bad, it's just killing the person who started the absolve and keeping him/her away from the Throne room for about half the time. That's pretty much what we did with Shedrin when he was absolving, someone stood at the Throne room and gusted him out every time he went in.