Xenthos:

Blocking it actually isn't that bad, it's just killing the person who started the absolve and keeping him/her away from the Throne room for about half the time. That's pretty much what we did with Shedrin when he was absolving, someone stood at the Throne room and gusted him out every time he went in.

Please don't try to tell me that it "isn't that bad". I know this probably isn't what you meant, but really that first statement just comes off as "your opinion is wrong." I had the time wrong in my head, but that fight still felt like forever, and it feels like we can't hold a domoth for even a few day without an absolve starting which is just going that fight all over again if we actually have the numbers to even attempt it.

I don't think we should really change anything about the Domoths, I just feel where Ushaara's coming from.

The only (and simplest) change necessary is allowing just the absolving team and the defending team up into the domoths during an absolve attempt.

If you wanted to go a bit further than that, allow absolving to be done only during a 'weakening' of the domotheos realms, which you get to learn with an astrologer's stargaze, like with old weakenings. The Throne of Death weakens right now/very soon/in the distant future/etc.

Bam fixed.

Then people would complain about it being random.

Damn it whiners, can't win!

Didn't mean for this to be whiny, if that's what it's coming across as. I generally like domoth fights, but it is the forced reactionary position without any real means to be proactive about changing the status when you don't have a domoth that grates on me.

I do think the absolver/defender org only would be a good change, though to play that broken record again, my issue is more that currently, the holders dictate the terms of when the fights occur, which immediately puts those without on the back foot from the offset. Those without domoths are forced into reactive position, rather than being able to do anything proactive to change the state themselves. I think this can create a bias in how draining and frustrating domoths can become.

I understand fluxing is there to reset the tables, and dormancy kind of limits absolves; but until a flux, with how they stand currently, one side of the alliance can do nothing to change the current state, until the other side attempts an upgrade.

To exaggerate it, for me it's something like one side being able to raid (essentially) whenever they like, but if other side wanted to raid, they have to wait for opposing side to say "Ok, we're ready, come raid!"

Anyhoo, hopefully people are aware of the point I was trying to make, and idea has found root somewhere should domoths be revisited!

Ushaara:

Didn't mean for this to be whiny, if that's what it's coming across as. I generally like domoth fights, but it is the forced reactionary position without any real means to be proactive about changing the status when you don't have a domoth that grates on me.

I do think the absolver/defender org only would be a good change, though to play that broken record again, my issue is more that currently, the holders dictate the terms of when the fights occur, which immediately puts those without on the back foot from the offset. Those without domoths are forced into reactive position, rather than being able to do anything proactive to change the state themselves. I think this can create a bias in how draining and frustrating domoths can become.

I understand fluxing is there to reset the tables, and dormancy kind of limits absolves; but until a flux, with how they stand currently, one side of the alliance can do nothing to change the current state, until the other side attempts an upgrade.

To exaggerate it, for me it's something like one side being able to raid (essentially) whenever they like, but if other side wanted to raid, they have to wait for opposing side to say "Ok, we're ready, come raid!"

Anyhoo, hopefully people are aware of the point I was trying to make, and idea has found root somewhere should domoths be revisited!

QFT.

That's why if you implement only specific "times" when you can absolve, then everyone gets time to prepare accordingly.

The people I call whiners are the ones who will complain even after proposed fixes have been made yet contribute nothing at all.

I will admit however that it's hard giving the people who don't have any domoths anything to do other than defend during an absolve or go for a steal.

Sojiro:

That's why if you implement only specific "times" when you can absolve, then everyone gets time to prepare accordingly.

Perhaps it was just poor timing of my post given the spate of recent absolve attempts that keeps shifting the discussion back to absolves. But how would this help alter a situation like the current distribution of domoths?

Oh you edited, and I think understand what I was trying to get at. :)

Well, you were the one who brought up the analogy about raids and raiding back, not me!

Regarding your specific problem, I am not entirely opposed to allowing for something that basically allows non-opposite domoth holders or even ascendants from staging an absolve / or even stealing, but there needs to be a system in place to avoid non-domoth holding allies gaming this.

Basically, what I am getting at is that the team-based nature of domoths is precisely what is holding it back from being truly fun.

Domoths lately have been very good at encouraging conflict and fights. I think the current system does certainly provide avenues for conflict, which is good. As long as each side takes each battle one by one and doesn't get caught up too much on 'winning the domoth war', that is, viewing domoths as simply opportunities for group combat with some purpose, people won't get worn down and tired after repeated absolve wars etc. Domoths are by no mean a necessary system to participate in, go in because you want to fight!

The fact that the blessings are org centric and that it generates power is enough for all orgs to view them as more or less mandatory.

Domoths are fun now and then. But to be honest I roll my eyes at it as often as (or more often than) I enjoy it though.

Limited absolve windows would be nice. Or a way to forfeit a chance at upgrading while also protecting against absolve (not usable on fully upgraded domoths obviously).

I also can't wait for the shrine changes to go through, that'll make the bubble fights less obnoxious.

How about we have something similar to ES QUEUE? When an org wants to absolve, they make their intent known in the usual fashion. All willing participants would then have to ascend. Let's give this an upper limit of what? 30 minutes? If after those 30 minutes have elapsed, there is a clear "fair" fight looking imminent, the absolve gets initiated. I would recommend something along the lines of this requiring a minimum of three people from each side, and should the numbers be stacked strongly in favour of one side, the absolve would be cancelled.

This obviously needs a little fleshing out, but you get the general idea.

So the absolve only happens if people actually step up from both sides? Then when will an absolve ever happen, if the absolved can simply not step up to cancel it?

I'm thinking all this chatter about absolving is no longer a Simple Idea and needs its own thread.

I don't think it was ever a 'simple idea'.

Mmm. Good point. Early morning ideas suck :(

Maybe putting some sort of penalty in for -nobody- stepping up to defend it? I guess, then you'd have to take into account people actually really not being around and that would be open to abuse. Hrm.

I dunno. Somebody will come up with something soon. I really like Ushaara's ideas, though I also agree with a lot of things that were said against it.

It's a difficult one, for sure.

Last points I want to say about this before letting it get back to simple ideas.

Sojiro:

Regarding your specific problem, I am not entirely opposed to allowing for something that basically allows non-opposite domoth holders or even ascendants from staging an absolve / or even stealing, but there needs to be a system in place to avoid non-domoth holding allies gaming this.

Basically, what I am getting at is that the team-based nature of domoths is precisely what is holding it back from being truly fun.

I don't mind the team aspect for the most part, it's that one team can dictate almost everything about domoth conflict that I dislike. Allowing ascendants not currently occupying a throne to initiate an absolve attempt is an interesting idea I think. If that leads to too much upkeep from people gaming it, the astrologist weakening idea could be a goer? Or some repurcussion for the attempting org if failed? Maybe the no-domoth org has to expend such-and-such amount of power to initiate the absolve?

Solanis:

Domoths lately have been very good at encouraging conflict and fights. I think the current system does certainly provide avenues for conflict, which is good. As long as each side takes each battle one by one and doesn't get caught up too much on 'winning the domoth war', that is, viewing domoths as simply opportunities for group combat with some purpose, people won't get worn down and tired after repeated absolve wars etc. Domoths are by no mean a necessary system to participate in, go in because you want to fight!

This is it! I think the domoth system is a great avenue for conflict, and personally I would prefer to see this looked at rather than introducing the Dharma Initiative thing. We often want to fight, but current system doesn't allow us any means of doing so in a means that isn't reactionary. The system has a bias where one side can choose their times to upgrade etc. etc. but for an org without a domoth, they have no means of choosing when to challenge the domoth setup for themselves.

Anyways, back to simple ideas! I've said my piece! :)

Sojiro:

The only (and simplest) change necessary is allowing just the absolving team and the defending team up into the domoths during an absolve attempt.

This is really what I want the most. I think this would lead to the most fun fights, and limit the power of conglomerate alliances a bit.

Shedrin:


This is really what I want the most. I think this would lead to the most fun fights, and limit the power of conglomerate alliances a bit.

Eh, I think it would have the opposite effect, it'll likely lead to more domoth fights with skewed numbers. Alliances can at least cover if nobody in the owner's org is logged on. Unless it was coupled with more predictable windows for absolving too I guess.

A simple analogy for why I think it'll have the opposite effect. If you measure the same thing five times, a single spike of noise will have a pretty major effect on the average. If you measure it 15 times, a single variation has less impact on the average and you're closer to the "true average". Now imagine the thing you're measuring is players logged on.

Edit: I do like the -theory- of single orgs participating against each other. But in practice I think it'll lead to more "wait for them to not be around then act" antics.