Firstaid

by Charune

Back to Common Grounds.

Unknown2010-01-27 20:50:20
QUOTE (Charune @ Jan 27 2010, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Re: Macs... I've never owned one, but perhaps I'm the only one on these forums who has built a full Tinyfugue system!


Open source, or it didn't happen.
Gleip2010-01-27 20:51:51
QUOTE (Tervic @ Jan 27 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I would personally prefer if it didn't use power-cures at all (since those are kind of a hallmark of higher-level comat, at least in my eyes), but eh, I'll deal.

That seems counter-intuitive. I thought the idea was to reduce the neccessity of system for combat participation.
Charune2010-01-27 20:54:53
QUOTE (Zarquan @ Jan 27 2010, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Open source, or it didn't happen.

Will not be doing that, but here are some pieces from it:

CODE
/def close_flags=\\
     /let size=%{close_flags}%;\\
     /let i=1%;\\
     /while (i <= size) \\
            /let flag=$%;\\
            /if (flag=~"venom") \\
                /set venom_open_type closed%;\\
            /endif%;\\
            /let i=$%;\\
     /done%;\\
     /clear_list -lclose_flags
    
/def add_close_flag=\\
     /let flag=%{1}%;\\
     /if (flag!~ "") \\
         /add_item -lclose_flags -i%{flag}%;\\
     /else \\
           /sys_warning add_close_flag: Passed in empty flag.%;\\
     /endif


/def has_close_flag=\\
     /let flag=%{1}%;\\
     /if (flag !~ "") \\
       /if (list_contains("close_flags", {flag})) \\
           /return 1%;\\
       /else \\
            /return 0%;\\
       /endif%;\\
     /endif%;\\
     /return 0

/def do_preHeal=\\
     /if (has_affliction("amnesia")) \\
         /send blink%;\\
         /remove_affliction amnesia%;\\
     /endif


/def -Fp9999 -t"^(.+)$" line_counter=\\
       /set line_counter $
      
/def do_failsafe=\\
     /let cure=%{1}%;\\
     /if (cure !~ "") \\
         /let found=0%;\\
         /let curr=1%;\\
         /let size=$%;\\
         /while (curr <= size) \\
                /let aff=$%;\\
                /if (list_contains(aff,cure)) \\
                    /let found=$%;\\
                    /pre_remove_affliction %{aff}%;\\
                /endif%;\\
                /let curr=$%;\\
         /done%;\\
         /if (found==0) \\
             /sys_warning do_failsafe: No affs found for cure \\"%{cure}\\"%;\\
         /else \\
               /add_cure %{cure}%;\\
               /if (cure=~"drinkFrost") \\
                   /add_defense frost%;\\
               /elseif (cure=~"drinkVenom") \\
                       /add_defense venom%;\\
               /endif%;\\
               /sys_alert Failsafe successfully invoked on %{cure}%;\\
         /endif%;\\
     /else \\
           /sys_warning do_failsafe: Blank cure passed.%;\\
     /endif


Aaand we're back to discussing firstaid!

Regarding gedulah/green... if you're locked, and have the power.... why wouldn't you use it?
Xavius2010-01-27 21:04:08
QUOTE (Veyrzhul @ Jan 27 2010, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd say that if you combine firstaid with a sipper, some highlights, keybindings and aliases on nexus, you'll be good to participate in pretty much everything. Not top notch, but still.

I think the balance cost is enough to keep that from coming to be, but if you manual cure and just need to turtle up and get your bearings, the new skill is a great option.
Janalon2010-01-27 21:22:48
QUOTE (Veyrzhul @ Jan 27 2010, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd say that if you combine firstaid with a sipper, some highlights, keybindings and aliases on nexus, you'll be good to participate in pretty much everything. Not top notch, but still.


I have a sipper thanks to Sahmiam. Now I might actually start pulling katas together and begin combat training!
Tervic2010-01-28 19:01:48
QUOTE (Gleip @ Jan 27 2010, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That seems counter-intuitive. I thought the idea was to reduce the neccessity of system for combat participation.


I have a system, and it has zero incorporation of power cures, save for what's necessary for illusion protection. It certainly doesn't autocast Green. Power cures don't have to be part of a system, and in fact, a number of people prefer to keep them on manual only.
Iktomi2010-01-28 19:15:51
QUOTE (Tervic @ Jan 28 2010, 02:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a system, and it has zero incorporation of power cures, save for what's necessary for illusion protection. It certainly doesn't autocast Green. Power cures don't have to be part of a system, and in fact, a number of people prefer to keep them on manual only.


I prefer to keep power cures manual, I like to keep track and control of when and what my power is used for. Wyrding uses a lot and I can get low pretty fast!
Gleip2010-01-28 19:41:32
I still consider Green/Ged to be useful on command considering that it's the only way you can get out of some locks. It's not like Firstaid queues cures anyway.
Charune2010-01-28 19:45:20
QUOTE (Gleip @ Jan 28 2010, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's not like Firstaid queues cures anyway.

What do you mean by queuing cures?
Gleip2010-01-28 19:51:13
For example, if I have two broken arms and use first aid, it'll only apply mending once. To cure both arms, I need to firstaid twice.
Atellus2010-01-28 20:12:11
QUOTE (Gleip @ Jan 28 2010, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For example, if I have two broken arms and use first aid, it'll only apply mending once. To cure both arms, I need to firstaid twice.


Right, it also will not do regen followed by mending or similar chain curing.
Arte2010-01-28 20:15:29
Can firstaid's commands be interrupted by stupidity, amnesia or concussion, even though they're not coming from player input?
Lehki2010-01-28 20:27:54
QUOTE (Gleip @ Jan 28 2010, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For example, if I have two broken arms and use first aid, it'll only apply mending once. To cure both arms, I need to firstaid twice.

Doing that would be a bit much I think.
Atellus2010-01-28 20:52:54
QUOTE (Lehki @ Jan 28 2010, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Doing that would be a bit much I think.


Any reason other than taking coding time away from other things?

I can see how a new player would type firstaid and assume it would cure whatever was wrong, as that is what is implied in the AB file. Yet it currently can not handle some common situations without being invoked multiple times (when it had all the info needed the first time).

It also will apply mending each time you invoke it, even if the limb is waiting to be healed by a prior call. So if you do not know what you are doing you could call it, try to do something and notice you still have a broken arm, call it again, etc and be confused as to why you are not healing your arm (not knowing about how mending works).

Even if it did full queue based curing, and knew about things like mending time, it would still not be as powerful as a custom system. Yet it would be even more useful for new players.

I think what exists now is great, but I can see how there are things that could be improved. I do not know if the time it would take to code them would be worth it though. My gut feeling is that we should wait and see how much of an impact this has on new players. If I was the admin I would take some kind of survey after a few weeks =)
Arte2010-01-28 20:56:18
I don't see how curing two broken arms would be any different than it being able to, say, cure one broken arm and scabies (both situations require two salve balances).
Gleip2010-01-28 20:57:24
I'm just stating that it doesn't queue. I'm not sure if it should. As it is, it may fare rather poor against affliction-classes. Especially Guardians who can purposefully stack same-cure afflictions. However, making it queue cures would also make it lean to the other side of the scale.
Genos2010-01-28 20:58:08
I think the Firstaid ability is definitely a great new feature for new players. I cannot understand why people are all up in arms about it. If Firstaid ever became an in game curing system of sorts I can only see good things coming from it. One of the main problems with IRE games is the fact that combat is governed by player created systems. If everyone was given some sort of basic server side curing I'm sure a LOT more people would be willing to play the game.
Lendren2010-01-28 21:13:50
Not having Firstaid queue also helps limit how useful it is -- since every use will eat up a bit of equilibrium. I think that's intentional and probably sensible. You can cure everything with it via repetition, so it's all the system it needs to be, while still affording a lot of room for improvement.
Unknown2010-01-28 21:26:39
I agree with Lendren 100%.

Queuing not only uses up coding time and server resources, it isn't feasible the way the ability is currently coded. You diagnose and see you have three afflictions, but by the time you get to curing the third, or even second, you have two new afflictions that change your ability to do so...

Plus, freely available combat systems make the "IRE games are dominated by player systems" argument almost entirely moot.
Estarra2010-01-28 22:24:06
Don't worry about coding time. That's something for me to worry about, not you! If an idea is good and we want to include it, we'll prioritize it.

I don't think queuing is necessary or desired.

I think there are good points that FirstAid shouldn't use cures that require power.

Right now, it's still a work in progress so we really appreciate the feedback and we'll do necessary tweaks as needed.

Though it still may be too soon to tell, I'm kind of curious on the experience of new players (i.e., new to fighting) who rely predominantly on First Aid. Do they do well enough to at least have fun? What's it like fighting others who predominantly use First Aid?