I think the real, real question is:

Why a regeneration-affliction, passively?

Shamarah's log above shows him being amputated with no prior burn levels on the first tic. Even the best warriors cannot get an amputate actively on the first hit, let alone passively.

Sham was fully healed, he -just- got to second degree burns.

Look at his log. He did not have high burn levels at all.

As I said, we can look at tweaking the burn levels after the pyro report (maybe not allowing a possibility of amputate at 2nd degree).

A debilitating passive offense that can be effective against a large number of people simply while spamming shield bash.

It... sounds... familiar somehow.

Almost as if this situatuion has existed and still exists elsewhere in the game...

This is like that time during racial rebalancing when Rika was like "But at X str you get negative damage look at these tests!" "No it doesn't." "Look at these tests, there's more now!" "No it doesn't." "Look everyone else is testing it now too with the same results." "MAYBE"

Amputate on a passive in a demesne is and always will be ridiculous. Look at what else amputate comes from and *how hard it is to do*. Even if it's not possible at second degree, someone with good demesne setup who uses the power burns skill can still amputate on the first tick with ta-ta-ta-timing!

Actually nevermind. Learn2cure Shamarah. No one ever uses trample sacrifice, insanely fast tahtetso unavoidable instakill combos, 20 vessels in 5 seconds with hyperactive, taintedlove+ache+dsong, ectoplasm in groups, pit judging, perma winding, choke-ganking, and/or enfeeble abso... (haha wait). It's a failure of your ability to play the game that results in these scenarios, not mechanics my friend!

But there's the real point. Not only is the above a good example, but we amplify it by being reliably partisian right through the forums, intentionally or no.

I mean, when Celestines got their new stuff, all I heard for a bit was to the effect of, "I can't believe that this tiny window is ok". We've gone over how bad an idea many people feel choke is too. And there was cruc-train-sac and... what, the old Spiritsingers? Whatever the gank du jour happens to be.

But it has to be hard for the admin, when the see a thread like this- started by a Celest combatant, and supported by a mob of Glom combatants. Against a mutual opponent (if in character, if nothing else).

I'm not going to sit here and pretend the amp is fine, naturally. I mean, I have a sharp piece of metal that I have to work my butt off with to get an amp. But there's a time and a place to listen to a forum mob. Forging was a good time to listen to it. To the extent that they never listened for choke, or it's cousins in rant material, hopefully they will be similarly critical of this mob.

So, all that, and for once it's nice to be on the side with the ability people are complaining about. In three years, this is a first, so I'll enjoy it while it lasts. Maybe it will last as long as choke!

It generally seems that there is a 5% chance to amputate in a pyro demense every tic as long as FireRain is at the end of the demesne spam. That seems really broken to me...

That's 5% minimum; chances go up considerably if you're stunned a bit and can't apply.

It is true that there are certain partisans who use the forums, envoys, email, issues and messages in campaigns to maneuver, manipulate and push forward agendas that may not be fair and balanced (though it is, of course, always presented that way). It's not like we don't see through these types of things, but it does make us a bit guarded when certain issues are presented to us outside of the envoy reports (and especially if they are extremely emotional in an oh-my-god-you-have-to-do-something-immediately-or-you-are-stupid-and-blind way). In any event the more adult, truly balanced and non-partisan the players are with us (yes, we can tell), the more we probably would favorably respond to issues brought up outside of the normal channels. Just saying!

Well, in this case, it's the same thing as the tremors / rockslide Geomancer issue that used to exist (but which was fixed). You have the demesne do the 2 burn levels first before the amputate effect. Thus, when the amputate hits, you're guaranteed that the enemy force has level 2 burns (and every one of them has a 5% chance to amputate passively, every demesne tick, even should they cure up the burn levels each time).

That's mostly the issue I'm seeing with there being a 5% chance at level 2 burns, really. It doesn't require any pre-burns for the demesne to take off a limb.

A 5% chance is still a 5% chance for everybody to whine when it does occur. I'm not saying it isn't obviously overpowered (I'm leaning toward saying it is pretty damn ridiculous), but I think everybody gets the point that Pyro demesne is kinda strong.

You, um, clearly didn't read my log.

I honestly find it completely unfathomable that you don't realize why being randomly amputated with absolutely no way of stopping it isn't ridiculous. I realize I may have come off a little insulting earlier, but seriously, how can you possibly justify this ability?

Because Aeromancy is so good, it has to match...hey waaaait

Passive regen affs are a thing that truly boggles the mind.

Also: group of Pyros, as you are liable to see, given it's Gaudi's only guild = incinerate/twirlstaff spam which leads to pretty reliable group amputates (and cremate), with no way of preventing it.

I hate to ask this, but.... Estarra, did you test these demesnes before you put them into effect? Maybe made a character, gave them average abilities, let Charune make you a curing system,and let this demesne hit you and try to cure it? I mean, come on. It's entirely possible for this demesne to........ PREVENT YOU FROM CURING IT (double arm amp). We aren't talking about "Blacktalon demesne paralysis keeps me from reading Protection, no noes". We're talking about passively removing a limb. Passively removing all of the limbs. Hell, passively removing a limb in one demesne tic. It's obvious from his log that he didn't have builtup burns, I don't see Shamarah as the sort to doctor his log. This seriously looks like you looked at a list of afflictions, picked the ones that might fit into the set for rp purposes, and released it. I know you worked hard on this, but this isn't a matter of people merely complaining because the skillset is something they don't like, and trying to use letters/email/forums to get it fixed, this is a group of people who see serious issues with a skillset that the envoys are taking too damned long to work out.


So in our mage guilds, we have....

Geos, who have one of the best demesne and damage skill sets...Aquamancers, who don't have a viable instakill, and who have been told that they can't get one to even match the Geomancers.

Pyromancers, who have asthma, slickness, passive amputation in one hit, another skill to cause major damage and blackout, raise staff = allheale/phial and are basically known to rape people, and then we have... Aeromancy, a demense basically stopped by having large amounts of pennyroyal onhand or focusmind.


Equality please.

To be fair, only one report cycle has gone through since the guilds were released, and the pyro report (which was rejected pending their special report) was about the amputation.

Er, it wasn't rejected. It's nigh close to impossible to get double amputates now (which was part of my original post suggesting it should be viewed in light of the latest envoy reports!).