Lehki2010-02-25 20:14:31
Just a short log excerpt.
And yeah I'm choked there and could have probably cured manabarbs otherwise, but that'd still be almost 4k mana drained from something that costs 1p in total and could be done pretty much instantly at any time if the bard and runist coordinate a little.
QUOTE
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
6848h, 6663m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:00.556>
Urazial slings a haegl rune and a haegl rune at you, hitting you in the chest.
MANA DRAIN MANA DRAIN
MANA DRAIN MANA DRAIN
You hear an ominous sound, and a dull pain stab throbs throughout your head.
===== MANA BARBS =====
You hear an ominous sound, and a dull pain stab throbs throughout your head.
===== MANA BARBS =====
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:00.612>(-1932H, -1932M. I'm deaf here, so Nightshade Blues isn't working, but can see that double haegl + mana barbs is still pretty painful)
ne
You are no longer immune from stun.
----- STUN OVER -----
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:00.962>
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:01.223>
You suddenly perceive the vague outline of an aura of rebounding around Urazial.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:01.237>
You may eat or smoke another herb.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:01.253>
ne
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:01.927>
tumble ne
Talan plays a viola of ebon ravenwood, and you cry out as your deaf ears open up to the sound of a high-pitched note.
===== EAR ACHE =====
Your ears open up, though you lose your true hearing.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:02.806>
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:02.877>
You may use another health, mana, or bromide potion, or medicine bag.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:03.662>
You find you cannot bear to part from Talan.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:03.916>
Urazial's aura of weapons rebounding disappears.
Urazial slings a haegl rune and a haegl rune at you, hitting you in the chest.
MANA DRAIN MANA DRAIN
MANA DRAIN MANA DRAIN
You hear an ominous sound, and a dull pain stab throbs throughout your head.
===== MANA BARBS =====
You hear an ominous sound, and a dull pain stab throbs throughout your head.
===== MANA BARBS =====
1052h, 867m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:04.238>(-3864H, -3864M. With Nightshade blues, this is just excessive.)
6848h, 6663m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:00.556>
Urazial slings a haegl rune and a haegl rune at you, hitting you in the chest.
MANA DRAIN MANA DRAIN
MANA DRAIN MANA DRAIN
You hear an ominous sound, and a dull pain stab throbs throughout your head.
===== MANA BARBS =====
You hear an ominous sound, and a dull pain stab throbs throughout your head.
===== MANA BARBS =====
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:00.612>(-1932H, -1932M. I'm deaf here, so Nightshade Blues isn't working, but can see that double haegl + mana barbs is still pretty painful)
ne
You are no longer immune from stun.
----- STUN OVER -----
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:00.962>
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:01.223>
You suddenly perceive the vague outline of an aura of rebounding around Urazial.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:01.237>
You may eat or smoke another herb.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:01.253>
ne
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exdp-<14:57:01.927>
tumble ne
Talan plays a viola of ebon ravenwood, and you cry out as your deaf ears open up to the sound of a high-pitched note.
===== EAR ACHE =====
Your ears open up, though you lose your true hearing.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:02.806>
Thick shadows drag against your every action.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:02.877>
You may use another health, mana, or bromide potion, or medicine bag.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:03.662>
You find you cannot bear to part from Talan.
4916h, 4731m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:03.916>
Urazial's aura of weapons rebounding disappears.
Urazial slings a haegl rune and a haegl rune at you, hitting you in the chest.
MANA DRAIN MANA DRAIN
MANA DRAIN MANA DRAIN
You hear an ominous sound, and a dull pain stab throbs throughout your head.
===== MANA BARBS =====
You hear an ominous sound, and a dull pain stab throbs throughout your head.
===== MANA BARBS =====
1052h, 867m, 6074e, 10p, 29690en, 31058w exp-<14:57:04.238>(-3864H, -3864M. With Nightshade blues, this is just excessive.)
And yeah I'm choked there and could have probably cured manabarbs otherwise, but that'd still be almost 4k mana drained from something that costs 1p in total and could be done pretty much instantly at any time if the bard and runist coordinate a little.
Nienla2010-02-25 20:32:48
QUOTE (Lehki @ Feb 25 2010, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just a short log excerpt.
And yeah I'm choked there and could have probably cured manabarbs otherwise, but that'd still be almost 4k mana drained from something that costs 1p in total and could be done pretty much instantly at any time if the bard and runist coordinate a little.
And yeah I'm choked there and could have probably cured manabarbs otherwise, but that'd still be almost 4k mana drained from something that costs 1p in total and could be done pretty much instantly at any time if the bard and runist coordinate a little.
How about that Springtrap!?
Close the thread before the hilarity ensues, admins. This isn't going to be constructive at all. We all know it isn't. It's just one massive rant thread.
Lehki2010-02-25 20:35:26
QUOTE (Nienla @ Feb 25 2010, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How about that Springtrap!?
Man, I don't even know about those. There was some weird :censor: happening when I tried testing in the arena so I just bugged them. <,<
Was able to set up chains to instantly fling me across over 20 rooms without fail. But then there were some rooms which spring trap would never knock into like they have a no forced movement flag.
Talan2010-02-25 20:38:36
In this situation, you have 3 people attacking you, and several conditions working against you. Choke (3p + 1p shadows), Octave (3p), Double Haegl (1p), and I have to actually afflict with mana barbs, and keep the song up. You're presenting as though it's a single attack, it's not. Context is your friend.
Unknown2010-02-25 20:41:03
QUOTE (Talan @ Feb 25 2010, 09:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In this situation, you have 3 people attacking you, and several conditions working against you. Choke (3p + 1p shadows), Octave (3p), Double Haegl (1p), and I have to actually afflict with mana barbs, and keep the song up. You're presenting as though it's a single attack, it's not. Context is your friend.
Which still doesn't justify the level of near instant annihilation to the mana pool of an ascendant that happens with this combination. Something there needs reigning in.
Veyrzhul2010-02-25 20:42:06
Why do you need octave and manabarbs to drain that much mana? All you need is the song up and himdeaf + double haegl. I personally actually think double haegl is the real problem, faelings can get some insane mana drain with it alone, even without nightshadeblues.
EDIT: him undeaf
EDIT: him undeaf
Lehki2010-02-25 20:44:14
QUOTE (Talan @ Feb 25 2010, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In this situation, you have 3 people attacking you, and several conditions working against you. Choke (3p + 1p shadows), Octave (3p), Double Haegl (1p), and I have to actually afflict with mana barbs, and keep the song up. You're presenting as though it's a single attack, it's not. Context is your friend.
I just picked this log because it had a nice example of it with nightshade blues vs without right next to each other in the same context. I think have some other somewhere that involve JUST nightshade and haegl.
The massive mana drain thing was the point I'm trying to get at anyway, which would be the same amount in a different situation without choke/octave/manabarbs up. Suppose I can find another example of it.
Nienla2010-02-25 20:44:47
Double Haegl is equal to two lashes. Takes nearly about the same balance. Besides, not like Runes really has much else.
Really, close thread. Nothing productive is going to come from this. We all know it.
Really, close thread. Nothing productive is going to come from this. We all know it.
Talan2010-02-25 20:45:40
QUOTE (Rainydays @ Feb 25 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Which still doesn't justify the level of near instant annihilation to the mana pool of an ascendant that happens with this combination. Something there needs reigning in.
The double haegl did 57% of his total mana. Also, I find this confusing... you are saying that 3 people attacking someone using 8p of skills should not justifiably -nearly- kill someone?
Ayden2010-02-25 20:48:48
Who was the choker by the way? Looks like you are going against three people. That pretty much spells death most of the time...
Unknown2010-02-25 20:49:14
QUOTE (Talan @ Feb 25 2010, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The double haegl did 57% of his total mana. Also, I find this confusing... you are saying that 3 people attacking someone using 8p of skills should not justifiably -nearly- kill someone?
Tertiary to the point of the original log. As he said, this isn't a quirky thing at all, and needs examination. These kills happen in seconds, faster even than the much (by myself included) maligned "cruicify chains" (which, as silly as those were, took/take far more power than this sort of rapid take down).
Lehki2010-02-25 20:49:42
QUOTE (Talan @ Feb 25 2010, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The double haegl did 57% of his total mana. Also, I find this confusing... you are saying that 3 people attacking someone using 8p of skills should not justifiably -nearly- kill someone?
In the case I have up there yeah. But you're ignoring that this can be done with 2 people for 1p.
Lehki2010-02-25 20:52:20
QUOTE (Ayden @ Feb 25 2010, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Who was the choker by the way? Looks like you are going against three people. That pretty much spells death most of the time...
That's not even the point of the log, people. ):
Two people, two attacks, 1p, almost 4k mana drain on a fairly short balance. That's that's the point
If I could grab a Harbringer and Runist we could go make a new log of me with no afflictions at all and the two of them instantly dropping over half my mana, would that make people happy? ):
Nienla2010-02-25 20:59:25
QUOTE (Lehki @ Feb 25 2010, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
In the case I have up there yeah. But you're ignoring that this can be done with 2 people for 1p.
Sounds like most of teamed abilities in Lusternia.
Talan2010-02-25 21:00:51
The point of his log is to indicate that it's excessive and must be changed -- but there's a fair bit of teamwork that goes into this scenario. The barbs doesn't stick if octave isn't up (3p). If you're not talking about barbs, then it's just mana, in a situation with two people who can do nothing with that mana loss (can't go for swoop if the druid is with the target).
Atellus2010-02-25 21:05:45
QUOTE (Lehki @ Feb 25 2010, 12:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If I could grab a Harbringer and Runist we could go make a new log of me with no afflictions at all and the two of them instantly dropping over half my mana, would that make people happy? ):
This is always the best way to try and point out a problem. When you use a real log the people involved will get defensive and there are always going to be other things going on that people will point to as adding to the issue. So if you have a problem with a combo you really should try and get it in a very clean log that just shows the problem so the discussion will not get sidetracked.
Desitrus2010-02-25 21:11:53
Just make haegl not trigger barbs. Derp.
See, otherwise, this is going to spiral into "YEAH BUT YOU JUST DEFEND IT CAUSE YOU USE IT!"
"{YOU NEED TO LEARN TO CURE|TEAMING EQUALS DEATH IN IRE|IT COSTS POWER SO IT SHOULD BE GOOD}, IT TAKES X PEOPLE TO {TRAMPLESAC|HAEGLBLUES|INSTAPRESERVE|INSTACREMATE|INSTAMPUTATE|PITJUDGE|SIXMONKC
RUNCHOVER9000QUADSHOFANGISKULLCRUSH}"
Seriously. You can adjust the teaming aspect of this without nerfing either ability, USEYABRAINS.
See, otherwise, this is going to spiral into "YEAH BUT YOU JUST DEFEND IT CAUSE YOU USE IT!"
"{YOU NEED TO LEARN TO CURE|TEAMING EQUALS DEATH IN IRE|IT COSTS POWER SO IT SHOULD BE GOOD}, IT TAKES X PEOPLE TO {TRAMPLESAC|HAEGLBLUES|INSTAPRESERVE|INSTACREMATE|INSTAMPUTATE|PITJUDGE|SIXMONKC
RUNCHOVER9000QUADSHOFANGISKULLCRUSH}"
Seriously. You can adjust the teaming aspect of this without nerfing either ability, USEYABRAINS.
Nienla2010-02-25 21:12:04
QUOTE (Atellus @ Feb 25 2010, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is always the best way to try and point out a problem. When you use a real log the people involved will get defensive and there are always going to be other things going on that people will point to as adding to the issue. So if you have a problem with a combo you really should try and get it in a very clean log that just shows the problem so the discussion will not get sidetracked.
It's called Raise Cudgel. Use it. Combo averted.
Urazial2010-02-25 21:12:11
QUOTE (Atellus @ Feb 25 2010, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is always the best way to try and point out a problem. When you use a real log the people involved will get defensive and there are always going to be other things going on that people will point to as adding to the issue. So if you have a problem with a combo you really should try and get it in a very clean log that just shows the problem so the discussion will not get sidetracked.
I think it's less defensive and more logical. Let's look at two telekinetics laying down some burst vessels on a single target and see what sort of damage/mana drain/endurance drain they can come up with in the same period of time. Or two blademasters pinlegwhoring from the very start of the fight. Two combatants who know how to synergize their skills are always going to know how to do so and the results will clearly be more devastating.
Is the supersling haegl strong when combined with a Harbinger? Sure. But there are countless combinations available for any org to achieve such strong attacks.
Oh. And psionics for druids, please. Thank you.
Lehki2010-02-25 21:58:19
QUOTE (Nienla @ Feb 25 2010, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's called Raise Cudgel. Use it. Combo averted.
Not even sure what raise cudgel has to do with this, since you know, it can be done to people besides druids, and not sure how that helps when it is a druid too.
And, yeah clearly, if you're just going to do that, it's not going to accomplish a lot on it's own. But throw it into certain situations and it could be instantly devastating. And yeah, it's not the only powerful combo out there, but I don't think that means all of them are fine just because there's more then one of them.
But anyway I just put this up so that there would be a log that at least shows what a huge drain is possible with such a simple combo. Not expecting admins to suddenly pop up and change it, but I think this is something at least worth considering at some point. =/
