You get the hell out of here with your combat log.

You bastard.

Let's keep things civil guys.

It's widely known that teaming on a singular target hurts. Telebombs (both the Telepathic and Telekinetic varieties), haeglspam, crucify chains, instacremations, amissio ganks, and whatever else whoreable instakills are out there to be used ridiculously fast by groups. Unless that particular bit of group mechanics wants to be addressed by the administration, things will just continue to hurt, I'm afraid.

Though, in before lock.

Offhand I can recall envoy reports attempting to address at least half of the things you've listed there. <,<

Offhand, I can remember those things still happening, so I pretty much doubt a change happening soon unless They want to address all aspects of group combat.

My point is simply that it's at something at least worth looking at, I mean you can't deny that's a pretty huge drain. Double Haegl on it's own is pretty cheap and impressive too.

Whether or not there are other near-silly combinations is entirely irrelevant to the individual case. For an example that effects all orgs at least more equally, the pinleg bonanza comes to mind. However, the mere existance of such things does not invalidate the point Lehki has made simply by virtue of their being.

To say "these things happen in groups" is also far too big a hammer for this particular nail. Rather than addressing any point made by Lehki, it is merely attempting to smother it using a far too broad, and not necessarily concise truism.

I like desitrus's post above. Make manabarbs not recognize drain from double haegl (or, dare it be suggested, any non-bard draining ability? Of course still recognizing mana used by the afflicted person). This wouldn't stop the incredibly simple mana kill set up, but it would at least keep a person from losing near all their health, and near all their mana, simotaneously to a two person, simple coordination.

In addition, it would only be hitting a skill combination that all bards and all runists have.

It won't address "get springtrapped across a zone into a brumetowered pit and mana killed in five seconds". But that is a larger animal, more applicable to the "look at "silliness" that happens in groups in general. Not that it's component parts are beyond analysis either, but its largely beyond the scope of Lehki's point.

Fairly sure you can supersling at someone on ground while you're in trees. Plus, what's the balance time on shoving? This could easily take place in trees, then shove them out and swoop.

I think the problem here is the combination of two fairly powerful abilities: supersling haegl and nightshadeblues. You're effectively being hit by four haegl runes every three seconds.

And nightshadeblues is a very powerful song. For comparative 'damage'-increasing things, you have sensitivity (+33%, herb cure, most commonly given by a venom with deaf restrictions), omen (+50%?, focus spirit or short period of time to cure, 2p), arguably deathmark for leech (increase dependant on mark level, I think capping at +7.5% of the original leech, requires build up, can be scrubbed/cleansed away (although not an optimal solution), and only lasts a few minutes). There might be others that I'm missing, but I can't think of anything that matches nightshadeblues - doubles all mana costs on all undeaf enemies in the room, and it's not that hard for a bard to keep you undeaf, especially in a group situation.

Abilities which reduce mana costs, such as nature torc and magicrown, do not affect aggressive drains, only personal use. I feel it important to note the difference between the two here: nightshadeblues does what no other mana-affecting ability does and doubles drains as well as costs.

Manabarbs just makes it worse, as you can see - Lehki not only suffered 57% of his mana, but a comparative amount of his health due to only a few actions. Blanknote, tritone, double haegl: 1p. If you want, you can throw in octave for 3p, but that lasts rather than being per throw. And that instantly puts an ascendant with a fairly high mana pool into toadcursable range - he will presumably sip health, sparkle, and scroll, which would bump him up to about 60% mana or so. Hit him with double haegl again and he's going to be very low in the mana department - definitely toadcursable, possibly swoopable as well.

Something which doubles all mana drains (not just costs, but also drains) majorly throws out of whack the balance that kinda exists between how fast you can lose mana and how fast you can restore it. Even counting that it takes two people, it's still on the uppermost end of the scale (the only comparative two-person manadrain I can think of would be two runists, and it would cost 2p per doubled double haegl). Telepaths can achieve a similar burst, but on the longer scale they're slower, as psyvamp has a six second balance - about twice what runes' is.

@Esano: Yes, you can sling runes from the trees to someone on the ground. Saplock + double haegl + treebane (or shove) + swoop is how I got all of my 1v1 kills when I was still BT. I kind of feel like I pioneered the technique, since I was the only person around doing that before Nyir went Runes, but I'm sure there were others before me.

With all the powers I have been invested with*, I shall bestow upon you the title of, "The Original". Wear it with pride or something.





* I have been invested with no powers.

Telebomb is very cheap, too. Doesn't even cost power.

Also, a fix to it was turned down (when suggested by a mage envoy), so... yeah.

Wait, let me make sure I understand this. You have two people whose skills mesh well, against one person, and it's OP?

Lol.

Wait, wait. Know what would have stopped that?

Shield. Gusting Talan out of the room. Vines. Hrm.

I sense this thread spiraling rapidly in to a trash can.

This thread has served out its purpose. Nastiness will get you all nowhere.