Well, I thought the idea proposed by Est was to divorce cults from Ascendants, making it an Avatar thing (as a lot of people have asked for).

That would work too, I'm going to blame the blood loss related headache I have for not seeing that.

I just would like to see Ascendants having unique things for them to do that benefit the org (any demi can do domoths so it's not really special or unique) and giving cults these extras was a neat fit that promoted a bit of rp over combat.

There's nothing saying Ascendants can't have 'more' if they have a cult.

I'd really like to see some ideas for what cults could be/do - they don't have to involve godrealms. That's just an idea - I quite like mine, and enjoy adding to it, and (I think) my order enjoys it, so linking cults to it might be a fun (and neat?) way to go about it. Could have a cult shrine in the realm wherever the cult is founded, could build... Something? From cult essence. I've no clue!

What do you want out of cults? What do you think would be 'fun' in cults? Etc.

It seems fitting that cults be an Avatar rather than Ascendant thing. With the introduction of order affinity (and this isn't a complaint!), options for orders are more on the limited side than what they used to be. While an Ascendant may not be in an order, an Avatar, well, is.

Perhaps an Avatar with a cult could have their own area or room connected to their Patron's godrealm. Or call upon a godrealm mob- such as an Avatar of Viravain summoning a homunculus that might follow the Avatar for an hour that would impart some minor, non combat benefit. Could be used to deliver items, influencing bonus, etc.

I've seen in CoffeeMUD a system where you can perform a series of emotes/says both as a single player or a group that causes a "spell" to come into effect.

Such a system could be customised by the divine to give a different org buff. Maybe once every x years they could do something that would increase the power from the flame/generator/drums/star/necromentate/flutterbyes? for an ig month, the way you do so could be modified so ascendants are performing different tasks in each org even if the end result is the same.

Right now I have little interaction with cults and my question is what is their point, I can only see what abilities are available to them and that Vernal Cults are being heavily defended as a divine thing when this is a massive investment by the orgs more so when the possible number is limited. If we ever got to a point where we had more active divine in an org than ascedants then someone misses out, more so if more than one ascendant is in the same divine order. But should we be thinking about denying someone ascendant because they don't want to be in some other gods order, or should the divine have to suck up to these people to get the cult.


Perhaps the cults could be a second conduit for the power of their elder into the city? Maybe the cult shrine could be in the godrealm with a lesser reflection within the city bounds that acts to broadcast powers imbued into the true shrine to the city. Could be just small abilities to encourage participation in things. One month of extra power income, One month of doubled scholar contribution. Long delays between then and the admin could decide which cult is more appropriate for which power (Elostian might have a cult with a power that can double bard income but if an artistic god came to hallifax and got a cult this power could be transfered to their cult.)


I have to catch a two hour train ride home, so I need to go.


EDIT: forgot, even if cults get moved to avatars I still think Ascendants should get something that focuses them on helping the org. (Sarans' Department in Hallifax in charge of generator maintenance ftw!!!)

I still find it more than suspicious that there was no problem with Demigod besides the few odd 'Nerf Divinefire' rants that were here and there from time to time that suddenly Demigod is so oh-so-powerful. Demigod stats as have been stated do not play a large part in most combatants options besides the few stated exceptions. Size is almost irrelevant now. Zap is nice in groups and a good RP touch (lol they want to remove the one 'rp' thing that is given to people).

This notion seems most heavily supported by the Ascendants who are about to get torn down and for that want to take down as many people as possible with them. Also I find it abit humorous the whole 'purchase skills for essence' when most of them are about to get around 150 million essence refunds back if the admins go that route.

I fought for ages at around level 80-99, only managing level 100 a day before the last War seal briefly after I hit 30 years old in game. I was so new that I didn't know that divinefire took time to kick in. I had success as a Nihilist against many of the games 'top tier' without spending a dollar on credits (my only purchase to date being a lesson package). Demigod is not needed for combat as I believe I, Shamarah, Nienla, Lyco (before he got it), and several others proved heavily for quite some time.

Proper use of the sleep enchant will prevent a divinefired target from escaping and is a tactic available to everyone. And we have all seen the very funny deaths of someone who dies after a late divinefire. Instakills also work very well on targets who divinefire including ye olde web/judge and such. The true problem which exists and if you sort back the pages upon pages of Ascendants advocating nerfs for Demigods but not wanting a single change for themselves for the sake of 'RP' is the fact that you have a large clot of players who can raid perputually without consequence or a fear of punishment. They suffer deaths repeatedly and because they have been 'hardened' or brought to the point of not feeling shame for a death than they face no true punishment for their failures and can lash out at the any without consideration while the opposing sides cannot return fire in the same way because on those sides essence is a precious thing that must be worked for. This clot of Ascendants only begets more Ascendants as Serenwilde proved once and as Glomdoring proves now. As long as their remains no cap then an organization will swell to an infectious point that ruins the game for others and cannot be contained (much as it is trying not to be contained now through all this whining). Cut off the infected arm, fix ascendant, give it some time from there and then lets talk Demigod if we see such radical calls for balance then. Just don't get caught in the uproar now as people try to save their own behinds while putting down others.

So you're saying reduce Ascendants.

I think everyone's just about agreed with you there buddy. The topic is now "What do we do with all this essence then".

The demigod/divinefire problem isn't something that just magically popped up overnight. It's been an issue for a long time, and since Estarra's listening now, it's only prudent to bring it up again. I think it's perfectly reasonable that demigods are getting policed since there are at least twice as many of them as there are VA's.

You really shouldn't just throw out random rhetoric about VA's taking everyone down with them (paranoia on the same level as Nienla's 'everyone's out to get Glom'), "lol just sleep dfired demis nubs" (doesn't work, pit/whispers/entangle stack is better), or people not wanting a single change for themselves (?? the changes hit everybody equally, if the ex-VA's get massive essence returns, it's because they put in a lot of essence to begin with).

There have already been suggestions to give punishments out to VA's who die with 0 essence, though I imagine if VA's were reduced (to 6 max or whatever), then the problem effectively solves itself IMO. From where I stand, it looks like you're trying to save your behind by repeatedly pointing your finger at VA's instead of acknowledging that there will be far more demis than VA's. Ever.

Hey, I did offer to debate the difference in power gap between level 98 and 100 versus Demigod and Ascendant. You're really trying extremely hard to say "Hey, the Demigod stuff is nothing but RP and all that Ascendant stuff is amazingly OP," but yeah. It doesn't actually work out that way. Demigod confers most of the bonus. Ascendant gives, really, Fearaura and Aegis (with Aegis being fine after the DF fix on it, Fearaura being discussed for replacement).

If the issue here is combat balance, then Demigod needs to be examined. If the issue is not combat balance, then it doesn't. Regardless, I don't get where you're saying that Ascendants want a lot of nerfs for Demigods but "don't want a single change for themselves." A nerf to Demigods will hit Ascendants too! On the other hand, a nerf to Ascendant-specific things won't change a single thing about Demigods... so it seems like "not wanting a single change for themselves" is being seen just a wee bit closer to home.

You're gleefully screaming, "Punish them, punish them, tear them down!" (I mean, just look at your most recent post; they're doing well, infected arm, etc), while at the same time demanding that only Ascendants have to face any kind of examination. If the issue is combat, well, Demigod conferring most of the combat bonuses... really, pick one. Is your issue combat or RP, Romero?

Agree with this part. The only thing that was ever complained about prior to these threads was Divine Fire. So, fix divine fire.



Yeah, in the case where former ascendants get a huge essence boon, it makes the clamouring for purchasing back what we have now with an essence shop all the more asinine. Disgustingly asinine really. Throw that on the pile for why its an abysmally terrible solution.



Those are all largely known wiccan/guardians, aren't they? I know Lyco hops around, and Nienla just switched recently, but thought it was interesting. Also, "only managing level 100 ... after I hit 30 years" is funny.



The funny thing is, despite it's problems, DF isn't the problem ability in the demi/VA stuff- in the context of group fights. Annoying and useful, yes, but hardly definitive. The abilities that are causing problems in groups spring right out of the Ascendance skillset. (Well, all two of them really).

And typically, groups are "where it really matters".

I dont know if this has been suggested but what if as ascendants learn more ascendancy they are able to bestow a mantle of a specific domoth on demigods within their cult. The mantle would allow them to claim that specific domoth with less essence drain. The demigod would only be able to claim said domoth for which the mantle is given and the ascendant would not be able to claim a domoth for which they have given a mantle out.

In my opinion, that would be a move in the wrong direction.

What two abilities are these?

I'm sure fearaura is one, but based on your argument, aegis can't be the other.

You can't agree with "Divinefire is not a problem, learn to hinder/instant kill", then turn around and say "aegis needs to go" without looking a bit odd. Aegis is circumvented by the exact same means, with the added downside that if you kill one, the other is left very vulnerable (1h left).

Just going to throw this out there, regarding the RP skills thing with Ascendants: No one will ever want to raise an Ascendant for RP purposes. The only people who will ever be ascended will be because they're good at PvP combat. That's always seemed to be the way it is, and with this change, that's the way it always will be, so why bother adding "RP skills" for Ascendants?

I apologize if that came off rude, but I'm a little bitter at this whole system. I never had a chance to Ascend before, and I'll definitely never have a chance now, unless I somehow become some amazing fighter and the other Ascendants in Mag decide to quit playing.

EDIT: Also, sorry if this's been brought up already in the thread. I read the first post and a few after it and just felt the urge to say this much.

I love the idea of cults, as a sort of mini-order that is still connected to the larger more important order. I was a little disappointed when I first learned about what all you can do with one since it is not all that much. The concept still has a lot of potential though, like Sidd said. Cults are a good way to bring life to an order in which the patron isn't around that much, or there isn't a lot of player-driven rp. The cult leader is (hopefully) still around, and can liven things up.

That said, I don't have many ideas as to how to flesh out cults. I like the idea of a cult shrine - maybe call it an altar. Maybe a unique beast for the cult leader? I think all gods have unique pets, would it make sense for that to be used?

If cults are expanded on I think one focus should be on creating a more tightly knit cult community, and on special abilities for those within the cult. Along the lines of an elitist gated community in the suburbs.

Ultimately, the success (or not) of a cult will depend on what the cult does with it.

The same thing is true of orders. Getting an order up and running takes a lot of thought and work: you need to have ideas and background and literature which your order members can play with and expand on. There's also a significant degree of work involved in keeping your order fresh over time - (and I'm aware as I write this that mine is becoming increasingly stagnant).

So personally, I think that what cults need is space to think in and be imaginative in. That means a newsboard and personal orghelps of some description - I don't know whether or not either of those things are feasible from a coding perspective. I also think that cults need their own cult areas in the temples of the gods they are linked with - and if that can come with a library, so much the better for giving the thing a good roleplay context. That's really up to the individual god. I know I have a dedicated suite of rooms for Thoros... I'm vaguely intending to do the same for Ceren, but my (real) life is so persistantly busy that I don't envisage getting round to it for quite a while...

Going off of what Fain said, it might be more useful/cooler to just give cults special powers in the godrealms, instead of giving them something that needs to be designed to 'commemorate' them or whatever.

One possibility is to give cults/the cult leader special defensive powers in the corresponding godrealm; since they're so tied to the god, they should have super special powers in defending that godrealm. Stuff like nexus discretionaries, but burning essence and looking much cooler. This might stifle order vs. order conflict, but that doesn't seem that popular to begin with...? Many more hit-and-runs than actual raids, from what I see

Well, I'm not seeing much in the way of ideas for abilities etcetera - currently, the way it works is there's a collection of rituals, each that provide bonuses to the cult - one gives charisma and influencing buffs, another is room-wide refresh with full shielding, another is like the guildmaster rite. What sort of rites would you like to see? What about rites that only work in your godrealm. What about rites designed to attack other cults? Let's hear 'em!

Running with Zalandrus's point, I wonder if we could tie something in with the godwars system.

No one ever fights me because my order is so much better than everyone else's. This is boring. I want to see bloodshed in my honour.

Not abilities, per se, that have to be learned and whatnot, but rather things like discretionary power, that show up in ORDER PRIVS (or the cult equivalent, if there is one). Maybe one like distort (but for a godrealm), one like flux/ripple (but for a godrealm), a few that mimic shrine effects (e.g. give health/mana/ego regen to all cult members in the godrealm, only activate-able if the cult leader is also standing in the godrealm), maybe even something like the mega mage/druid attacks (a spell, costing a lot of essence, that causes a lot of damage/really screws up order enemies in the godrealm, usable only once per X time). Things like that...

Rites that only work in godrealm would be cool (or maybe make all rites only doable in godrealm). More RP rites might be interesting too...something that gives participants a unique entrance/exit message or teleport message for a while (a Lusternian month?), something that gives a boost for when you kill order enemies (like a karma boost), things like that? Can't think of many other ideas for new rites at the moment

And Fain, nobody raids your godrealm because Eventru's order doesn't have many pvp-ers right now

Another idea: a rite that increases the value of offerings? Or maybe even one that ameliorates the malus for offerings from incorrect-affinity order members (an aura that can be bestowed upon order members not of the god's city, even if that order member isn't in the cult)?