Yeah. This.

Sorry. The system was designed to be one ascendant-to-a-cult. I don't think that's going to change.

If it's going to remain this way, I'd like the number of people you can induct into a cult to be comprised of more than just order members. Orgmates should be fine, IMO.

Well, let's say that your organization has 2 Divine.

You have 3 VAs and a TA.

You could have 4 different people wanting to get a Cult in one Order, which is going to cause some strain on an already small sub-pool of people.

... this only gets worse if you toggle it to Avatars, of which a Divine can make many.

(As a note, my Cult has five Ascendants in it right now. If that was five different cults... we'd have maaaaaaybe one additional cult member each. Maybe.)

Isn't that awfully limited?

^those. The limitation for cults only having one person who can use the skills places an increased boundary on an already fairly complicated mechanic. No thanks on the one cult - one leader with skills thing.

I'm the only extra member a cult needs. That fixes one.

I mean, if there's only one active Avatar per Order allowed at a time (assuming it's changed to Avatar-abilities), then it wouldn't be an issue. There wouldn't be a glut of people competing for members out of an already limited subset of people, I suppose.

But with it as-is for Ascendants, or switched to Avatars without a limit on Avatars, it's going to end up being just as stretched if it's limited to Order-only-members.

Yes, you are my +1.

Sorry, I'm completely against the notion of multiple ascendants in a single cult. The cult is formed by one person, and only one person should be able to draw from/lead it. They were designed to be lead by one person - the person who formed it. You should not be able to join a cult if you're an Ascendant. It's READLOG XENTHOS for a reason.

And the sheer essence cost on gods for making a cult will limit it, I'm sure.

Uh, isn't the entire point of this that we are getting large essence stockpiles? Vira could make a whole pile of cults really, with what gets offered to her. And, as time goes on, essence stockpiles go up.

As long as it's possible for multiple people to have the skills, I feel that multiple people should be able to use the skills; without massively diluting an already small-to-begin-with group. Further, why shouldn't Ascendants be able to join Cults if they want? That makes no sense. :/

Edit: And my cult is still led by me, though people are able to use some Cult powers they have learned they don't have full access to all the Cult privs. That's limited to myself-only, which is why I thought the rest of it was intended. Some stuff is flagged for cult-leader-only, some is not.

Cult essence isn't a stockpile!

Arguably, forcing people who can form cults into their own cults would be a larger expenditure of essence, on everyone involved. I cannot imagine the argument in favour of allowing multiple people to pull from someone's cult - right now you have 5x the benefit, for a single expense. I can't imagine how this can be justified, in anyone's eyes, heh.

I'm not talking about the Cult essence, I'm talking about Viravain's essence.

As a reference, my cult is currently at 19,112,929 essence. That's minus the cult powers I've used. Consider that cult essence is 10% of the amount offered to the Active Divine only by members of the cult.

That means that my Cult has offered around 200,000,000 essence since it was made. Not counting the other Glom-folk's contributions, and what she had pre-Cult. So, yeah, that's a massive stockpile that Viravain's got, heh.

The argument in favour is that you've got a huge number of skills that can't be used without being in a Cult. If everyone has the same capability (if you join a Cult that is aligned with your ideals and you have the abilities, you can use them), everyone's got the same potential. And, if you switch it to Avatars (of which there are many more than Ascendants), you've got an even larger pool of potential people who will want to use their shiny new cult powers. This means more pressure on the Divine to cave in and make said cults, leading to more dilution of Order members, etc.

Eh, why should there be unlimited avatars too?

All of this is starting to remind me of a particular quote

"I'll give them heroics. I'll give them the most spectacular heroics they've ever seen! And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll sell my inventions so everyone can be superheroes! Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super, no one will be." - Syndrome

There already are unlimited Avatars (edit: Well, limited by number of Demigods in the Order, but that's about it). I believe I mentioned that unless Avatar is restricted to one-per-Order (that was the other option), this issue will be the same whether it is Avatars or VAs. Actually, it'll be worse with Avatars simply because it's easier to make an Avatar than a VA, heh. 10,000,000 offered essence is less than a million power.

Sorry. Not buying it. Cults are one-man only. It is, most definitely, a bug you all can use cult-skills in someone else's cult. It'll be fixed soon.

Avatar numbers are limited by more than just essence, really.

I think it's time to agree to disagree before we have to have another topic split.

Heh. I don't really think there's much to debate about. If they would like to propose a single cult's essence pool can be utilized by multiple cult-leaders, that's their prerogative and it is so noted! Moving on - ideas for rituals, a conflict system, etc are definitely welcome still.

That would actually be a possibility too, if cults had the ability to ally / "merge" (kind of) with one another in an Order. Hm. Something like that. So the pool is only shared if the leaders so decide, and they can use cult powers on each other (but again, only if the leaders so agree).

Dude, all I want is just to be able to induct orgmates into my cult, that way, all the cults won't be hurting for members and more people can benefit from the powers.

Cults and orders are bound. I don't foresee it changing (sorry!).