Kaervas hopped once, from Magnagora. Which would have spawned a lot of Magnagoran complaints, sure, but he was pretty embedded in Glom by the time this came out.

As to it being the first; what does that matter, Esano? I'm getting punished just like everyone else here, and I was further asked to provide one example of it. Which I have.

Nejii is going to be on the chopping block in Serenwilde, and he was the first VA in the game. I'm going to lose it eventually (not in the first round most likely, but at some point some combatant will need it). So I'll get a pat on the back, a "thanks, but for the good of Glomdoring..." and poof, everything gone.

I'm really not sure how to see this as anything but a punishment at this point. Just a ticking timebomb.



Edit: And I'm obviously still upset about this even after sleeping on it, evidenced by the way this post keeps growing. At least I'll tag this line with an edit, I guess.

I have a vague memory that a long time ago a similar thread led to a similar suggestion which led to just such a thread being created (and nothing ever coming of it). Going to have a search soon. (Can I idea getting this BB to get better search options?)


While my plan is and has been to become a fighter (I'll never be top-tier but I aspire to "worth having on your team"), I never expected Serenwilde to ascend me because I don't play the politics game very well -- I tend to have a bunch of people who think I'm a shoo-in, and a bunch of people who think I wouldn't stand a chance even if I could suddenly beat Sidd, Nienla, Thoros, and Vathael simultaneously without breaking a sweat, and so I'd never sway a big enough majority. (Often, the people in each camp find the other camp so bewildering they sometimes don't believe that it exists.)

With scores of competitors for True Ascendant, no single person can ever have more than a small chance of winning, but that was still the only possibility I could aim for even after becoming a combatant. So this doesn't affect me that much. My comments have been primarily from the viewpoint of "where does Lusternia need to go?" rather than what it might mean for me.

You were asked to provide an example of when a combatant was turned down in favour of a roleplayer. I was pointing out why that was an exception. Yes, you're still being punished - in fact, if you do get punished, it's further support for what you were providing an example against ....

Either that or I'm too tired and misunderstood your conversation with Adeleide. I think I'll leave this thread alone for now.

Maybe I was thinking of this, which is no longer relevant now, but whose ideas might be adaptable to some non-combat-focused thing similar to Ascendance. I think there was some other thread, though, but I can't find it.

I also have to wonder how we can 'undo' a Vernal Ascension by in-game means. What, snip snip goes your link to the Domotheos because the Council says so?

Edit: No hiding that I'm upset by this too, at least I could go inactive in peace as necessary in the current form, but this is hard to see as anything but a punishment for past Vernals, as Xenthos says.

It's equally a punishment for past and potential future ones, really. I think we can all agree this should have been announced from day one, and it's nice of Estarra to announce it a little in advance now, so it's not so much a punishment as a change that unfortunately ends up retroactive. The difference is only in intention, not effect, but for Estarra's sake we should be clear. No one (I think) thinks Estarra intentionally did this to punish us.

Is the concern that there are too many VA's (thereby cheapening the honour) or too many VA's in a single org? (thereby creating game imbalances and a loop that perpetuates more VA)

Also, what will happen if an org is unable to maintain the upkeep? Do they suddenly lose all their VA's?

Intentional or not, it is a punishment. As you yourself state.

Being "unintentional" doesn't make it any easier to swallow.

Didn't mean it did, just trying to express to the admins that I don't think we mean what some of us seem to be saying, just to be fair.

The way I see things:

• The admin want to keep the game healthy and balanced. Having a single org dominate is a rather serious problem because we play to have fun, nobody likes to lose and you wouldn't have much of a game if everyone hopped to the winning org. However the way the mud is designed your fun usually comes at another's expense. To have winners you need losers and nobody wants to be a loser.
  
• Though a minority, VA's are a very vocal group, and for good reason. They have spent ungodly amounts of time and big bucks to get to where they are today. They are your most loyal customers so you don't want to piss them them off by pulling the rug from beneath their feet. If this is simply a matter of org domination, I will tell you right now that stripping ascendent privileges is not going magically displace Glomdoring from being leaders of the Basin. Players that are VA material are so dedicated to their org and play so many hours that they are going to turn the tide power. Glom just happens to have a cluster of these people. If it's decided that limiting the number of VA's is more important than respecting the accomplishments of existing VA's, then you can rest in the comfort knowing that there are a only handful these VA's (really right now the issue is mostly with Glom ascendents) and they probably will continue playing regardless of how things pan out.
  
• The masses need the possibility of ascending even if the chances are remote. Practically, the chance of random_casual_player of being raised is effectively zero but so long there is even a glimmer of hope people will be happy. However there are going to be players who feel they deserve the honour, have a reasonable chance and a soft cap will destroy their hopes and dreams. If you decide to go ahead with a cap you can rest in the comfort in that for 99% of players their hopes and dreams were exactly that and probably would not have been realized anyways. Likewise these players will eventually get over their grief and in all likelihood continue playing.

I don't have a magic bullet that can please all parties but it will be interesting to see how the drama unfolds.

EDIT: Edited a gazillion times and finally laid to rest. I will also add that if I was Master of Lusternia I would just do whatever the hell I want and that would be what I see fit and best for the mud in the long-term.

How about this:

Org raises Pikachu
Pikachu goes dormant
Org strips VA from Pikachu (Org gains 50% of the power)

Suggestions:
1.)Pikachu does not lose VA status per se, only the Ascendance skillset,
he loses X percent of his essence
he becomes another type of Ascendant (shown on HONOURS)
gains an honours line

2.)Pikachu comes back from dormancy
Org reraises Pikachu for 60% of original cost, restoring the Ascendance skillset
*reraising VAs would increases the power cost by 10% for every time a Person is reraised.
(i.e. if Pikachu got reraised for a second time, the cost will be 70% of the original, if he is raised for the ninth time, then the cost would be 140% of the original cost)


The idea behind could be the Org dampens the strain on the VA's connection to their Nexus to alleviate the drain on power because of their dormancy. I mean, the org was meant to benefit from the VA, but if the VA goes dormant, it's like a part of the nexus of power goes off, thus causing a kind 'problem' on the inner workings of the Nexus.

EDIT:
Power would still be drained from the org for sustaining a number of VAs. What Estarra posted was too much, in my opinion, maybe what Solanis suggested?

I like that idea, though I'm sure it would need to be reworked slightly so the admins might consider it.

What part of it would need reworking, though? Personally, I see the problem of the number of VAs affecting the combat part of the game is due to the ascendance skillset (which is the point of raising someone as VA, aside from getting VA, which is 1 level above demigod) so removing the ascendance skillset PLUS a drain on VA essence seems a win-win solution to me.

I see the Ascendance skill as a nice perk, but those who were not already demigods got something far more valuable. The stat bonuses, regeneration, and demigod/titan abilities are reason enough to be raised. People can say that demigod means nothing because "everyone has it now," but that doesn't make it so.

These people earned VA no matter how we look at it. They got voted to receive the VA status. The least we can do is at least allow them to remain a demigod, albeit one with X percent of their original essence.

EDIT:

The current mechanic behind losing VA also turns you into a demigod.

I'm against this change! If it happens, I'm making all ascendants pay for their weight each weave! I like power - how could you make this take away such huge amounts
I can see (maaaaybe) whipping people into gathering 4,000 power for the upkeep of 3 vernal ascendants, but after that, the numbers just make me cry. It's hard enough to get people to add a bit of power when all aspects are empowered T_T

*edit you know what? Nevermind...I don't even really see us getting 4,000 power a weave for that We'd probably be mostly in the negatives each weave.


I don't think so. >_>

People are talking about how the balance of power has shifted due to Vernals.

I'm not sure that's really the problem, or if it's even a problem in general.

We talk about Glom having so many VAs, but Serenwilde has just as many. Vernals are not the problem in this scenario. That's just Demigod Congregation, a usual phenomenon in Lusternia. VA's are really nothing more than esteemed Demigods- how does this make them the problem, then?

The person should lose the capacity to hold Domoths in an ascendant way.
Edit: Re-thought second point, nevermind that.

A point I don't think has been mentioned yet, if it's costing 500K to get someone demigod, logically, shouldn't it also only cost 500K to raise a demi to an ascendant?

What happened to 'Nothing matters but Glomdoring.' It seems to be 'nothing matters but Glomdoring as long as you let me keep my ascendence?'

Everything is not gone, you still have Demigod. You still can be avatar. You can still have your guild position and city position and be respected for what you have brought to commune.

Edited to add: Or as thisismydisplayname said, get rid of ascendance skill. Just for VAs though. Allow TA to keep it and just treat VA as a 'special' Demigod gift from the commune/city. There you get your rp cause you are still an 'ascendant.' Admins can even make it so you only have to hold staff for 30 mins to get TA so there is a combat advantage in that, raise the guy you think will take TA.

What, you're mixing IC and OOC? Heaven forfend.

And no. I fully feel like I have earned where I've gotten to in this game. I've put in a huge amount of time, a huge amount of effort, and I was given a relatively unique honour for that. It was given to me not based on combat prowess, but instead because of what I had accomplished (and hopefully would continue to do so). I am also not the only VA who fits this bill.

Further, I feel like I have continued to do what I was raised for... and, even further, I feel like even if I continue as I have, eventually it will get stripped just to provide that little extra combat edge to someone. You aren't even trying to imagine how frustrating that feels, heh.