I'm still not being clear enough. Becoming an ascendant is great for any combatant. It's great not because of the Ascendance skill. It's great because he can go from level whatever to demigod and get the DEMIGOD bonuses. Sure, it's great for RP, too, but I'm discussing why it's good to a combatant.

I am in support of this change, with also the added stipulation that ascendancy stripping no longer leaves the person with demigod if the person did not have it. Perhaps convert the essence the person had at the time of stripping VA into experience and then adding it to what the person had before being raised. Would require keeping a snap shot of the amount of experience the person had at the time of VA raising, but that should not be too difficult considering number of people who would be raised is very limited.

Oh, and no grandfathering in. If the Org can't support you, then oh well.

I think losing Demigod is a bad idea, sure, it helps remove the problem of raising someone for 500K power, but what about the people that already were ascended and then lose it? If they weren't demigod they're getting an even worse deal than they are currently.

I'd be all for letting current Vernals who are stripped keep demigod, but the system grows ridiculous if you let that happen for future vernals. For those raised after this system is in place, and then stripped, I say take their essence and any essence invested in Ascendance and give it to them in experience from their old level. If you transed Ascendance, that's quite a bit of a boost toward demi even if you didn't have it before, I'd think.

Uh. Transing Ascendance is the same experience total as 0-Demi, I think.

It's a heck of a lot of bashing and work.

So anyone with trans Ascendence would still be Demi even after being stripped, if you converted essence into experience, then put the overflow back into essence.

Anyway, I'm not advocating doing -anything- to current Vernals, really, just saying that if we change it all it does is make the problem worse, because it's half-price demi then.

I'd rather just... not get punished in the first place, y'know? Not have to try to think up some form of sop that isn't really worth anything in the end anyways.

I can't help but imagine that you'd have a completely different viewpoint if you 1) Played, and 2) Had been raised and were seeing all of your bashing / essence gathering going *poof* for some mechanical reason that is arbitrarily decided upon years after you went through it.

If you had been raised, with your activity you'd be one of the first on the chopping block. Even if you had transed ascendance (120,000,000 essence). All gone.

All of these assumptions you are making in a vacuum of knowledge concerning my views on the issue.

1. I do still play, just that I play in cycles. It helps keep things from becoming too stale for me.

2. I never liked Domoths, so in turn refrained from seeking out being a VA or TA once knowing the full obligations being one entailed, because I did not desire being obligated to participate in a portion of the game that I did not enjoy.

3. I have no clue about what my activity has to do with me being on a chopping block for losing something I did not have, nor should have received if I was not going to play the Domoth game. So that portion of your statement is extraneous at best, considering my situation.

Anyhow, the main point of my original post was to counter all of the meta-gaming discussions about finding loopholes around the system to instantly level people to 100. I really have no care whether they implement the change or not, but if they do I would rather they close up that loophole instead of allowing people to meta-game the system and create a number of demigods their organization's power resources would allow.

I do apologize that we couldn't have given more of a warning but this is a warning and something which you need to brace for. I understand that some people are rightfully upset and I'm still open to hearing ideas of some special honours or something for ex-vernals. I haven't been able to read all posts in this thread so if there are some good ideas posted, please repost!

Regarding giving demigod to ex-vernals, we have not taken snapshots of xp levels prior to becoming vernals and it's not something we can really look up for present vernals. However, for future vernals, we can look at different options.

Regarding vernals being too PK oriented, we can look at removing/replacing skills or abilities so its more RP related.

The NMBG mindset is why he would be willing to step aside if/when the time came in favor of someone who would do more combat-wise with the skillset. The lousy thing is that after 3-4 rl years in good standing that he would have to.

You can pretend you do not understand why someone would object to having their earned e-accolades stripped unceremoniously in favor of someone who's just plain better at the PKs, but being an achiever as well as a role-player yourself, I'm fairly sure you do actually realize that this proposal is pretty lousy for the people who will be inevitably cut.

Glom is consecutively winning not because we have many VAs, but because we have the largest group of hardcore people who enjoy spending their time working for the group. We have more VAs because we already have the core people who win the villages and nodes, and stay up late to nab domoths. This is not going to change just because some of these people are stripped of VA -- unless the goal is to disenfranchise people to the point where they stop playing.

VA has been billed as the ultimate achievement within an org, something above elected positions, honors, etc. People do play with the goal of becoming VA. This proposal changes the achievement from being the paragon of org involvement to being the best active PKer at a given time, as a matter of pragmatism, and that is unfortunate.

I do apologize that we couldn't have given more of a warning but this is a warning and something which you need to brace for. I understand that some people are rightfully upset and I'm still open to hearing ideas of some special honours or something for ex-vernals. I haven't been able to read all posts in this thread so if there are some good ideas posted, please repost!

Regarding giving demigod to ex-vernals, we have not taken snapshots of xp levels prior to becoming vernals and it's not something we can really look up for present vernals. However, for future vernals, we can look at different options.

Regarding vernals being too PK oriented, we can look at removing/replacing skills or abilities so its more RP related.

See, this statement confuses me a bit?

Is having too many VA's considered a combat advantage or an RP advantage? I can see the combat advantage (I've lived it the past year) but then making a statement talking about removing/replacing skills so it's more RP related makes me wonder why exactly is this change going in? If VA's are meant to be RP advantage then the simple thing would be to modify the skills that give it overwhelming combat advantage (ie Aegis, Affinity, Fearaura). So I guess the question is, what is the point of the change?