Obvious solution:

Make it known in the most blatant, obvious way possible that Ascendant is a boon for combatants, only available to someone with Demigod, giving access to cults/ascendancy. Ascendants are supposed to be physically powerful. That kind of ties in with 'combatant', inherently. Having a Vernal who can be killed by any n00b because they've no system or whatever is stupid and makes no sense (and that's RP wise).

Then, add something of equivalent value but for RP contribution (that is in no way related to Ascendants), available to anyone, that would give access to city/commune RPskillset that lets you customize your appearance, gives entry/exit messages, maybe lets you summon a personal entourage that you can control/interact with... sycophants, servants, advisors, etc to flesh out your character's role of political/religious importance. Obviously, this means it won't contribute to power upkeep, et al, since it's not actually related to Ascendancy, so everyone's happy. Naturally, someone could have both Ascendant and RPmechanic at the same time if they're both a combatant and an RP entity.

Just throwing the idea out there.

I will add my voice to those saying that taking away VA is a bad deal.

That's basically the same sort of thing I was asking for, just moving it an extra step away from ascendants. Now while -I'll- be happy with something like that, it's still going to feel sucky for the current vernals. Is there something in your idea to account for those? Maybe an extra thing to make up for what they do have to lose?

Would it be possible, if we made an rp-equivalent thing, to simply raise them in pairs - when you raise one 'combat ascendant' you also raise one 'roleplay ascendant', or perhaps that the difference between the two can never be greater than one (so if you raise a 'combat ascendant', you must then raise a 'roleplay ascendant' before you can raise another one, perhaps at a different cost - not power?).

At least, one of the issues that was raised seemed to be "if it's at all combat-related, it will take precedence over the rp-thing if the cost is from the same source".

EDIT: But right, minimal coding changes, so there might not be combat/rp ascendant separation.

Hi, I'm relatively new to Lusternia. I've also only read until page 13 of the thread before my class ended, and I can't be bothered to find my place and continue on. So I'm going to try to present my two-cents without knowing if the admin or player-base of this game actually values input from new players, or if I would be shot down like so much garbage.

The system of Vernal Ascendancy has been, for me, Lusternia's version of the "never-ending game". In Aetolia it is the ability to get to level 200 (if have an elf's lifespan IRL), and gain haven points, and learn racial skills with said haven points by continuing to bash. In Lusternia, City/Communes are the center of the game experience. The never-ending game is, from my perspective, to power-quest endlessly to raise endless Vernals - think of it as "bashing" for a level 100 City.

I don't see why this should be taken away, given that Lusternia's City-mechanics are the most intense out of all the IRE games I've played.

It enriches an aspect of the game that every player can enjoy, demi-god or not. Taking it away only serves to make that facet, the "never-ending game" that much less.

I can understand that the system gives too much snowballing combat benefits to an org. But I think the fact that Vernalhood isn't the cause (demi-godhood is) of this snowballing effect has been raised enough times in the first 13 pages that if I raised it again I'd be beating a dead horse.

At this point, I would like to pose a question (that I'm not sure if it has been answered) to the administration: What is the intention behind this "long-time in the coming" change? If it is to limit vernals, I've already posted my opinion on that above. If it is to limit demi-gods, then clearly the first 13 pages have repeatedly raised that this doesn't solve the problem. (Esano's point that 2 RL months with an entire City's dedication and support in aetherhunting will easily raise a normal character to demi-godhood proves this too - whether or not this system exists does not affect how many demigods a City/Commune can "produce" in a factory way.)

Secondly, I really do not understand Estarra's post at the start of the thread that states flatly this upkeep change will NOT be accompanied with additional changes to the Vernal system (something about essence shops, or something, that Xenthos asked). By alerting the player-base to the fact that an upkeep WILL be coming, it means the player-base will immediately put any plans to raise more Vernals on hold, thus making it so that they will not be incurring even more unforseen costs when the change goes live. Thus, the status quo of the Vernal system is going to stay unchanged until the change actually is implemented. This gives the administration an unlimited amount of time to implement this change with any additional changes to the system.

So really, why not put in the additional changes as well?

I came from another MUD, where a remort class was implemented in the game's earliest phases, and spiraled out of control over the years. The result? 30-40 people have been remorted in the game's 15 year history, with constant whines on their forums about how many there are, and how their bonuses are out of control. The admin there have tried a lot of things - watering down the bonuses, making it increasingly difficult to obtain - it doesn't matter. It's out of control, and people have long since started feeling like remorting is 'their due'.

Some sort of upkeep is necessary, or else things will spin out of control, given enough time (and I'm sure all of you who've invested time and money into this game hope the game will last that amount of time).

My solution:

1. Full Essence refund for all of the ascendants stripped of their status as a result of this change.
2. Some sort of artifact or special thing (maybe a new city rank, just under the city council) for the current Ascendants, just to make them feel special.
3. Cities can raise ascendants by paying (1 + (number of ascendants - 2)) * million essence. Strip them for a power refund.
4. Add new skills into ascendance to make it cooler. Right now I think it's kind of lackluster.
5. Make ascendance a skillset that the org can imbue their ascendants with. The costs of imbuing an ascendant with the powers of the skillset should increase exponentially with each ascendant that is being given the power. The ability to claim a domoth faster should be an imbuable power.

This way, orgs can still raise new ascendants, and they wouldn't break the game, since they would only have a few ascendants with the ascendant powers. The nicest perk for the org is obviously the ability to claim domoths in less time. Orgs can imbue ascendants with more power in "times of great need". I'm sure one of you who knows the system can flesh this idea out and make it truly awesome - I'm just throwing it out there as a possible solution.

I'm up for 100 guards! (I don't afk influence, though)

I still endorse my pikachu-idea.

EDIT:

Let ex-VAs KEEP Omniscience.

I can quite understand why people are upset about this, but the announcement makes a great deal of sense.

It's annoying to find that the door has been closed to a status you may have aspired to for your characters; but it is far more annoying to find yourself in a game where a significant proportion of the playerbase has game-breaking buffs and you simply can't compete. Trakis makes this point very well indeed, above.

I think (although I didn't think so at the time) that we should have stuck with one VA per org. But we didn't. Some form of cap is vital. It's just a question of whether it's a cap which permits a small trickle of additional ascendants over time or a cap which essentially holds the population static. I prefer the latter option.

Again this is mis-information and has been pointed out many times. The game breaking buffs come from demigod, not from VA.If your concern is such then your focus should have been the 100+ demigods we have accrued not the <10 active VA's.

The fact that it has been pointed out many times is neither here nor there, because I don't agree and repetition of an argument does not make it right.

Well it's a damn good thing you know more about combat and what buffs affect what than the people who are playing the game and actually involved in combat day in and day out.

We can all rest easier knowing you don't agree.

It's perfectly reasonable to argue that I'm disconnected from combat - I am! I haven't played Lusternia as a player in years. But I have certain advantages - I can watch whatever combat I choose to and my views are predicated on those observations.

As so often in Lusternian combat, for any given assertion you can find a diversity of opinions, dissenting or otherwise. If I wanted to find a player to disagree with you on this, Gregori, I doubt it would take me all that long. But to reiterate, the mere fact that you have repeatedly made the point that you think the most game-breaking aspect of ascendants is shared by demigods is no evidence of incontrovertible truth. I would enjoy debating the point (although not right now) - until we do so, we must agree to disagree.

Any buffs you get as a VA (in fact there are none that you get just by virtue of being a VA, other than never losing VA) you have already gained as a titan/demigod. All the combat buffs you have come from there, that's fact, and you can disagree with fact all you want, but hey maybe the world really is flat too.

The only thing VA's get are the skillset which has a few buffs, but they are not shared by as you said "a large proportion of the game" the large proportion of the game with game breaking buffs in combat is once again... the demigods. I suppose Experience Rankings could be wrong too and the active VA population far exceeds the active demigod population, which would be the closest way to being right you could get.

Edit:: On second thought you would still be wrong because all a VA really is, is a demigod with a skillset.

?





This entire argument appears to be coming down to the value you put on the VA skillset. Evidently I think more of it than you do.

Either way, even if demigods are adjusted, VAs remain demigod+. The problem of potential overcrowding remains a problem.

This is really the first time in quite a while I've heard people who weren't just making fun of Malarious claim VAs are somehow significantly more overpowering than demigods. Unless you count the "Urazial can leeroy every 15 minutes" complaints, which have a way better solution because this isn't any guarantee Urazial won't remain a VA and thus still be able to leeroy every 15 minutes and annoy everyone, to what are we supposed to attribute this complaint?

In order to solve the problem of overcrowding OPness of VAs, I prefer the solution of divorcing demigodhood and the (I'm not experienced enough to say which exactly) overpowering aspects of the Ascendancy skillset from VA (and continuing to allow city/communes to raise VAs) to that of imposing a cap, hard or soft, purely for the reason that with the cap, a large portion of the motivation for power-questing becomes lost.

Actually, doing away with the power system in Lusternia would probably light alot of fires in many people's hearts, but that's another argument anyway.

But meh, I'm just a newbie anyway.

If you read the thread, you'll find a lot of players who disagree with you.

It's not the VA that's overpowering here. It's making Demigods.

The only really significant advantage between the two is in the Domoth area.

Perhaps you should list why you think there is such a wide combat gulf between the two, because the player-base in general doesn't seem to see it. Those would be the ones who actually... deal with it in combat situations. It's the large Demigod population (including Ascendants in that count, obviously) that makes the difference.

I think that now is, indeed, the time to debate the point actually!

Edit: I have to ask the following. Estarra states that it was intended for there to be only one per organization because they were going to be FULL RP GODS. However, Vernals are not full RP gods, so limiting for that is out the window and not even really part of the discussion, no? It would seem to be distracting and unnecessary extra information that adds nothing to the current discussion, period.

Exactly what powers do Vernals have that require limitation? On the whole, there really is nothing amazing. There are a couple of very nice skills, like Aegis for example, but... that's about it. What does limiting the number of people who can have aegis really do? Or... are you planning on giving VAs a crazy-huge boost that would actually make a limitation required?

^

Hey, I have an idea.

For 2 million power, you can Super-Ascend (name needs work) one and only one of your Vernal Ascendants. This gives them the super-powers that absolutely must be restricted, and keeps it tied to exactly 1 person only, ever. You could even go with making them near-RP-god-level.

The rest of the Vernals shall just have to make do with being Vernals.

Everyone wins. You have your unique super-status, and you aren't punishing your current playerbase for using the mechanic that you gave us.