Maybe I am a bit dickish for asking this question, but why exactly does there need to be some sort of compensation given to those that are going to lose VA? The original idea was that being VA should be a rare occurence and it was treated as such. As soon as it was we nagged enough to where there could be more than one, it started being handed out like candy. (I.E. Sidd being raised to VA.) Xenthos, Thoros, Nejii and Malicia... From being here since the beginning if I had to picture someone being raised to VA it would be those people.

I honestly feel that those losing it do not derve anything. You got to partake in something extra rare that a good number of people wont get to. Thats your prize. Suck it up and move on.

Some of us put a lot of effort into things we do in game (I.E. Lendren) sometimes we get something back for it sometimes we dont.

You obviously haven't read Sarrasri and Xenthos' post. I suggest going a few pages back and reading the sentiments of those who devoted time, money, and effort to be deserving enough of this status.

Oh I have, point still stands not swayed by any of their arguments. If Serenwilde or Glomdoring chooses to strip them, blame it on Serenwilde and Glomdoring. It sucks but again, we all invest in things that dont turn out how we want them to or dont live up to our expectation. Glomdoring raised Sidd for goodness sakes... thats like the epitome of too many vernals.

When you become a VA, or even a viable candidate, then we'll have a different discussion.

And Sidd has, time and time again, proven our investment was all good. Sidd is not the only Vernal Ascendant that gets hit with this - all of them do, regardless of whether or not they're part of the Glomdoring Awesome Squad you're so subtly hating.

The Administration gave us a mechanic (raising Vernal Ascendants for 1 million power). We used it according to what we know. Now they are telling us that "oops, it's supposed to be rare, so here's a penalty and it sucks but you have to live with it." Was it our fault for using the mechanic with the knowledge that we had then? Were we told that Vernal Ascendants were supposed to be extremely rare?

Theoretically, Lendren could run for Vernal Ascendant. He has contributed much, not only to Serenwilde, but to the game as a whole. He is the pioneer of plays, and eventually Serenwilde could have raised him to honor him for this. Under the current proposed change, though, this cannot happen now - because Vernal Ascendantship has again been solidified into the combatant-only stage.

See, what you don't get here is...

Nejii will be one of the first to lose VA. That is not to be blamed on Serenwilde. That burden lies solely upon the ones who have decided that it needs to be stripped from people. If this goes in as-suggested, organizations are being forced to remove VA from those who aren't as active / productive. No matter what their past history. No matter how much they have done. Nejii has had bad internet for quite a while and limited access, and for that, he loses VA.

I will lose it eventually myself. There's just no way around that. So, I am (rightly, I feel) also personally upset by this.

Esano has also said that Magnagora will most likely strip it from Thoros.

That's 3/4 of your total right there. The main reason Celest wouldn't strip it from Malicia (mostly inactive) is that she's their one VA so it doesn't come with any cost... but the moment she starts costing, you can bet they'll be discussing popping the Malicia-pinata for 500.000 power, too. So, 4/4 of those you think deserve it... don't seem to deserve it after all. Mechanically.

Indeed.

I've had my cigarette so I can put this in a nicer way. I would say I would be one of the current ones affected by the change (Believe it or not people do want to see me raised to VA.. why dont know.. not for me to ask I always defer to someone else). Where as if things were to continue I imagine I would be Celest's equivalant of Urazial being raised..



I wasn't saying Sidd being raised was a poor investment, but the raising of Sidd to VA emphasizes the fact that there are too many VAs. Someone who at the time had not spent that long in Glomdoring being placed above numerous others who had.

It was not a matter of Oops this is supposed to be rare. This was stressed initially with there only being one originally for each org. Once it was allowed to be more than one, it was argued over these forums numerous times how the raising of more vernals was going to snowball. Which it has. The steps are being taken to correct such.



I get that Nejii will be one of the first to lose it. That is Serenwilde's choice, but they are not forced to. Nor is Glomdoring forced to strip you. I agree with your points on the mechanics of it, but I see that as a seperate issue.

They're not really separate. The mechanic will eventually force the organization to strip someone.

Wait, what? What do you mean they are not forced to?

If they don't, they're given penalties. Mechanical penalties. Which means, with limitations, that you must only give VA to those who are or will actively use it the most effectively. Period.

How is that Serenwilde's choice? It's being driven solely by suggested mechanics changes.

Further, as a member of Glomdoring's council myself, I'm facing the prospect of being required to vote to strip VA from myself, given my character's roleplay (as Romero was so kind to point out). Or just saying "* you all, my character's roleplay breaks here." This completely sucks, and I don't really get why you'd try to blame me for that.

Edit: If not for penalties for having VAs, do you see Serenwilde deciding to strip Nejii of VA? I really don't. Throw in penalties, and he's one of the first to go. That is forcing.

Again they are not forced to strip Nejii or you. The decision on how to mitigate the penalities is up to the org itself.

Its a matter of if mechics should trump rp.

So, who wants to debate the differences between Demigod and VA, and where the "vast gulf" in power is?

We have:
1) The biggest issue, Domoths. Which is not even about the skillset, it's about time and lower essence consumption.
2) Aegis.
3) Fearaura.

This could very easily be addressed by making an organization only able to pick 2-3 VAs for which they imbue with the ability for extra Domoth benefits, and removing Fearaura. Aegis is nice, but... it really doesn't need to go away, I feel.

Now, take a look at the advantages a Demigod gets over a level 98.
+2 to ALL stats.
Regeneration.
Tons more H / M / E.
Refresh.
Divinefire.
Zap.
The ability to change size on demand.

Where is the real gulf in power here? It is not between VAs and Demigods.

Uh, yes, they are forced to strip us. Did you even take a look at the mechanics being suggested? With that kind of penalty, mechanics will always trump RP. That is, in fact, the intended point-- to limit the number of VAs. To which it will be limited to those who will use it the most effectively, in a combat sense.

It will eventually, but for this first initial cut that is going to have to be made what says it has to be Nejii or Xenthos. If the decision was made to strip Malicia without her saying she didnt want it anymore, I would cause an uproar because to me, what Malicia stands for in Celest is far more than any other candidate I can think of save maybe Catarin. I would feel the same way if I was in Glomdoring with Xenthos.

That's what I've been saying for two days, so I agree completely. However, I'm reluctant to discuss it too much, lest my demigod fun be cut down.

Jayden, it's like having the option to cut off your foot to get out of your shackles or face being eaten by hungry lions in the next few minutes.

Jayden. Currently, it is impossible to gain 64,000 power in one weave. Even if all the people in Lusternia help one organization, I don't think it's possible to gain that much. Astral can be drained. Epic quests have time limitations. Elemental essence has spawn times. Killing opposing Supermobs (Avatars, DLs, Supernals) has limits (invulnerability, essence to respawn). It is, mechanically, impossible to upkeep that many Vernals if the proposed change goes through.

It, therefore, mechanically forces organizations to strip Vernal Ascendant statuses.

See? Even you agree that the mechanic will -eventually- force people to strip VA. You even said you'll rage if Malicia gets stripped of VA in your Org. What about the rest of the Basin with the VAs they look up to? And are you saying it's fine because those whose VA gets stripped is not from your org? Favouritism much?

That's the best analogy for this scenario in the thread so far.
I hope Jayden gets it this time.