The fact that Vernalhood is tied to combat bonuses (Domoths, Demigodhood and Ascendancy Skillset) will force Orgs to decide to cut these "RP" or "Dedicated" people and keep the combatants as VAs. Like has been said, maybe seperating the listed combat bonuses from Vernalhood is a better idea, maybe not.

When Glomdoring raised Sidd we had one (1) active, and at the time somewhat reclusive (sorry Xen), vernal ascendant, and one ascendant who had qq'd a week after getting it almost 10 months beforehand. There's another 30 page thread you can go necro from a year ago if you want to rehash the 'Sidd didn't deserve VA' garbage, it doesn't belong here. From a role-play perspective we chose to see VA as a massive power boon to someone young and keen, representing the new Glomdoring, etc, etc. While it may have been a gamble at the time, it still seems like a perfectly reasonable use to me for a down org to imbue the power of VA in its best hope for the future.

So no, I'm sorry... if you want to scream too many VAs, you can look at the raising of me, number 7 for Glom, who finally accepted it after getting nominated for the last five, simply because I felt assured that we had secured enough real combatants in the role, but leave Sidd out of it.

Hey, as a VA, Xen has always been kind of reclusive. Still is. And even before VA, too.

Must be the Spider-sign he was born under.

It's just part of who he is, heh, so you don't have to apologize.

So... nobody wants to debate the "vast gulf" in power between VAs and Demigods?

I really think it's becoming clear here that the reason for this is not combat reasons, but simply because it is intended to be unique. Thus, I propose the following:

1) Rename Vernal Ascendants to "Paragons".
2) Remove Domoth advantages from Paragons. Leave the other effects as-is.
3) Add in Vernal Ascendants, cap at one per organization. This must be raised from a Paragon, at much higher power costs.
4) Give Vernal Ascendants the current Domoth bonuses. Further give them additional strong powers / abilities which come with being "one-of-a-kind".
5) Consider whether TAs deserve this, as they are not going to be one-of-a-kind and will continue to grow as time goes on. Perhaps they don't, and should be named something else, too. They should keep their Domoth bonuses as-is, though.

Now you've done some changes which 1) Punish almost nobody (though the Domoth changes are going to be really annoying to deal with, I'm sure most of us can live with that), 2) Give one more "ultimate achievement" ranking.

Most of these changes, excepting the new VA setup, require almost no changes as well-- you could enact them now, and hold off on the new VA code for a month or two.

The only reason I'd try is to see how high I could get your post count.





This is better than most ideas, save that the new vernals don't need anything new power wise. That's just the old enemy of "power creep" kicking in.

Still, even if they lose it, they'll likely keep demi. And as has been mentioned over and over, that's where the real oomph comes from. So its not like they need any compensation. Lose the fear aura and aegis from far too many people, the game only gets a little better.

The word Nexigod is laaame, use "Paragon"

Nice. I like that. I'll edit it in.

Well, keep in mind that when "one-of-a-kind" was initially introduced, it was anticipated that these people would become full Gods. Instead we got Demigods with some small perks, sans limits (it's not like there are limits on number of Demigods either). If it's intended to be a one-of-a-kind-unique-super-powerful-thing, it's not that.

I'm simply trying to bridge the gap between their understanding and ours, because it seems like they think there's a lot more being given to VAs than there is... the real combat advantage here is the Demigod-aspect.

Also, re my post count: I'm invested. With many RL years of investment. Of course I have an opinion!

Hey, I just put forward a proposal.

I just think it's important to come to some consensus as a group because individual contributions will not be as influential. (as in, I don't even think they'll be read) Threads are going to go all over the place and this is already become unreadable.

At the end of the day, it is going to be what, 4 or 5 people who are at risk of being cut. I'm sure you can discuss it amongst yourselves, write up a report, and submit it by email. Either Estarra will agree or she won't, but at least she'll have listened to your collective voices. Something is going to be done, and if you didn't do your best you are going to be kicking yourself years from now but it'll already have been too late. Good luck.

Perks are the problem, moreso when the people who have access to them is extremely limited. Better I think to, in your scenario, have VAs keep ascendance as is. "lesser/former" VAs/Paragons/Special little snowflakes could keep the skillset, but lose access to aegis, fear aura, stuff like that.

What we don't need is some new terror of an ability getting dumped on an already often broken group fight dynamic. Less is more in this case.

I'm not sure I feel very sorry for the people that are loosing it, if there were changes made before this happened then perhaps some of the rp-raised vernals could be saved when pvpers were given the boot.

I rather like the idea of separate paths for ascension though if you could make the rp path notably different from the ascendant path you could argue that while you have... 10 super-powered-awesome-menpeople only half of them are ascendants and the rest are a completely different thing.


An idea I've been thinking about would be similar to ascendance except that rather than creating a link to the domoths and all, it would reinforce the bond with the org raising them. The skill would be a fairly general thing, but preferably the text would be customised to the orgs.

An example (not really a suggestion) could be... Serenwilders might get the ability to bestow a Geas from the spirits on a member of the commune, while one from Hallifax would be providing an Assignment for the benefit of the Collective. Both are the same, just different text really, they might randomly select a quest that suits the org and require the player to complete it within a given time frame for some benefit both to the individual and org. Nfi but the idea is that you would only really have an rp distinction between the celest skill and the magnagora skill.

If there was some form of alternative that those who are likely to lose the privilege of being a vernal could segue into (lessened/no cost for the first ig year or two after release, after that you could not change without being stripped of your power and "raised" again, the admin might even be able to work with those willing to change and have an event where they do) would those that are likely to lose in this situation be as upset?

Simply, buff up the combat side of ascendance, create a second version that offers little to no combat bonuses consider them separate more "slots" as someone was saying and if done properly both types will be in demand and orgs should have little reason to give the second type to a combatant who might be raised as an ascendant as it would cost them more.

@Xenthos: Without a link to the domoth would the ascendants have the ascendance skill? Not trying to shoot it down really, but what makes ascendants unique is not just the domoth stuff it's also ascendance. Also where did anyone get the idea that thought ascendants were going to be full gods obviously did not read the posts announcing vernals first sentence "Unfortunately, we come to the conclusion that the player god concept was
not working nor could we ever see it working."

They'd have the same link to the Domoths that they have now... which is forged by the Nexus spending 1 million power. Would be the exact same reasoning as now for getting the Ascendance skillset.

Just mechanically, we wouldn't get a bonus to claiming Domoths any more.

As to your last sentence: Estarra brought it up again right in this discussion when she mentioned the "limited to one" idea. The original intention for "limited to one" was because of the Full-God Status that came with it, and then when that went away, so did the other part of it (after a bit of discussion). If you disagree with her, you're welcome to, I suppose.

So they would have a link to the domoth but they would not have a link to the domoth? I'm more interested in the rp justification you can come up with.


Also weird... unless she was referring to Ascended Gods, the first metion of Vernal Ascendants (as an option in game) was the post that I have quoted from memory. Before that Ascension made you an Ascended God, not an Ascendant two very different things

You can find the forum thread here http://forums.lusternia.com/index.php?showtopic=13942 it also has the original HELP ASCENDANTS.

As long as we are arguing about Ascendants they were never to be full gods as that concept had already been kicked before they were envisioned.

How about you read her posts in this thread?

The original idea for Ascendants (all Ascendants) was to make them full RP gods. That was decided not to happen, but they had kept the idea of 1 per org from that time. Then, in the discussion, they decided not to keep that archaic restriction since it was no longer the same thing as originally envisioned. VAs have always been intended... she even stated that right in this thread, with how VAs were originally envisioned. Come on, man.


Now, to the first part: Exactly what link do you think current VAs have to the Domoths then? They're raised through the Nexus, not through a specific Seal. In the Score it says that you've pierced the Domothean energies through the Nexus, etc. That would remain the same. You just don't have the same mastery over controlling Domoth Thrones that someone who ascended through the Seals themselves do. That's... really not seeming like a difficult RP concept to me.

Please provide quote Estarra has stated this, You'll excuse me for not trying to search through 30 pages of forum posts to find something you seem to know about. (Yeah, we did evaluating sources today. Right now you are completely unreliable) Yes Ascension originally was about raising players to full gods, this was scrapped and replaced with Ascendants because the admin realised players as full gods did not work.


To your second part at my first part: Ascendance is a skill based around the Domoths, if the method for raising a Vernal Ascendant creates a link to their energies then this would bond them to the domoth on some level and explain why they have the connection. To me the more basic manifestation of any link to the domoth would be simply to survive there with the advanced form being the Ascendance skill as it is closer to godhood.

@Talan: This is where we need clarification, if Vernal Ascendants were intended to be gods then it was before Ayridion became Ilyarin.

I've just checked through the pages from the quoted thread and there is nothing about Ascendants being true gods.

It would be nice if Estarra could clarify but I feel that your quote is more about the original Ascension system and not necessarily ascendants themselves as there was no option for Vernal Ascension until the announcement of Ascendents when Ascension to player-god was scraped

Utilizing a feature known as "Search," I have found the following post in 2 minutes:



Like I said, right in this thread.

You've just demonstrated that you didn't read the thread, nor could even be bothered to do a simple search to support your claims. Why are you talking about me as an unreliable source? :/

Hey, look, found it for you and didn't even have to go quote something.

EDIT: It's a shame that there's no neat way to make "Xenthos" and "ninja" into one word. Xeninja looks weird.