I'd like to single out this line right here for the proof that we're still acting randomly.

There's no value to trains right now. You're not going to get roleclaims. You're not going to get a random confession of scumhood.

Now, if you want to lynch someone based on lowest value to town or greatest danger as scum, sure, but say that. I'm inclined to believe that you're intentionally murkying the situation out of a desire to cling to an irrelevant paradigm and vocabulary.

Huh? If by "proof of acting randomly" you mean "proof of not acting randomly and wanting to make sure of that", then yes. Obviously you're not going to get roleclaims at ANY point in this game because we all know everyone's roles. What I'm seizing upon is that either Tekora made a terrible poorly thought out scum defence that tries to shift attention onto Gleip from himself for a really bad reason, or that we are missing something that he isn't, and if the latter is the case then he ought to be able to point that out.

Greatest danger as scum was my initial motivation to vote for him, but there's only so much use in that and the idea was to spark discussion instead of having everyone flail, vote randomly without saying anything and then force us to vote for the first person to vote no lynch cause some scum or newbie always does that. It's a far uglier gamble to actually lynch based on it than on scum tells, so what you're supposed to do is bait one of those and then go for a kill.

Or, we could just waste our headstart and let the scum kill us off without even managing to establish anything that we can dissect when we have even more information.

Remember that we only have one investigation and an arsonist at work. Unless the arsonist is someone without a nightpower/Tekora, the tracker and probably watcher (depending on how watchers work here) won't be able to discern the arsonist when she's out playing tricks. A no lynch will give her another night to set up keystones, and another night for the scum to kill our doctors and watcher/tracker.

It's not a race to find the scum, though. The arsonist has 1-2 firefighters to worry about and a cover story to maintain. Played correctly, we have great opportunities to find the scum tomorrow. A double lynch plus a scum kill means that we have lots less time to find the scum.

Actually...Shiri probably knows this. Why would you suggest a dayvig today when it's disabled tomorrow?

Vote: Shiri

Huh? "Only one investigation"?

I'm way more worried about the regular scum than the arsonist, especially since one of them is a bomb. Arsonists just seem crippled in general, particularly in smalltown (I felt really sorry for Silferras last round, luckily the town scrubbed out.)

Great opportunities to find a scum today are even better than finding a scum tomorrow because they can only use one power a night between them, assuming Youmu/Utsuho etc. aren't one of them; if one of them dies today the other one has either no kill or no camouflage. The opportunity cost seems to favour doing it today, although I can see why "saving it for later" would be superficially attractive. But it's not a one-use thing.

In any case, voting for at least one lynch is still massively preferable to voting for no lynch. I'm gonna stick to Tekora for now because of that slipup earlier. I just want to point out how much Xavius' no lynch looks like a defence of him without actually covering up for said slipup, incidentally; in case Tekora does turn out to be scum that's definitely even worth noting than if the no lynch had been the first post in the thread.

PS: Didn't vote no lynch. That was meant tongue-in-cheek, mostly because I know Shiri rages every time it comes up. Shiri hates math/no-lynch.

Alice has a one-shot investigation skill. Unless Kappa can copy that, we only have one shot at correctly investigating someone. That's the investigation I mean.

Hmm. What do you know, you didn't actually vote for it. But you did succeed in confusing Arix and Balizar, who normally know better, derailing their votes from more serious candidates, and also sort-of invoking Balizar's "FOS" complaint, so it's still a no-no!

(What do you mean I hate maths?)

Actually, now that I look at it Balizar was probably joking, since he said "even though he's scum."

But Tekora totally followed you and I can muster no such motivation for him. HMMMMMMM.

You don't need motivation for good play. You've convinced yourself that it's bad play, and I decided several games ago that it's not worth arguing the merits of no lynch with you.

Double lynch is still straight dumb.

It might be worth arguing the merits of no lynch if we were ever in a game mode where it was worth it, by the way, it just so happens that we don't really get them around here. Smalltown certainly isn't one.

It's perfectly good play in Smalltown. We know what everyone should be doing. It would be beneficial to see what everyone actually does...without making the scum win one turn faster. What you're suggesting is two random actions and forfeiting our chance to use it at the first good opportunity, thus shortening the game another turn or half-turn. The arsonist must love you.

My no lynch vote will go away if someone starts being scummy enough to warrant a change, since I'm fairly sure there's no risk of a sudden jump in no lynch votes

Started this post at 12:25, probably ninjaed by the time I hit submit. Pay no mind.

We can't count on the arsonist doing nothing. We have to act as though the arsonist douses every night and doesn't lose any targets to lynch or murder so we don't get surprised. Using the Shiri's scorched earth logic, we should be directing nightly vig kills as well. That puts us at seven "lost" targets every two days. We have fourteen players. That's dumb.

Patience buys us time. Our trackers can look for people who shouldn't be moving. Our doctor, roleblocker, and jailkeeper have better odds with fewer attacks. Patience will move us away from baseless flailing and random action.

How do you figure "fewer attacks"? The more people are around when night falls, the more targets there will be for everyone to use their nightly action on. And therefore, there's less of a chance that our tracker/watcher/roleblocker/doctor will target the correct individual. I get the rest, but that exact part leaves me a bit confused.

Anyway I don't think that we are randomly flailing here, because Tekora has been acting very odd. He's been skittish and mis-representing what I have said, trying to make it seem like I claimed to have the ability to differnate between mafia and vig kills. It's these things you need to be able to pick up if you're gonna want to make any kind of headway in a mafia game, and not just rely on powers. Especially so in a Smalltown game, where not only does the scum have a nifty power of their own, they know who else has cool powers. They know who they should be eliminating each night. Smart scum know how to play the power game to their favour and use the power that'd be most beneficial to them. Watcher is part of the scum duo? Watch the one your pal will kill and use that to blacklist anyone else who targets said individual that night. Redirector is scum? Make sure your target isn't doctored or your pal ain't roleblocked. Double-scum with nightpowers and full power-list make nights very dangerous for us, and I'm not quite willing to give up the lynch just yet.

You know, if the scum hadn't thought of this before, they sure will now.

So many days have passed, and people are still inactive. That does it. More activity, or I start diving some random inactive shmuck. I signed up for mafia, not a tea party of the eternal sleepers. Yes, I'm talking to you guys who can't even manage one post a day.

by my count, the inactives are Saran, Shulamit, Solanis, and Bali. In this case, I count as inactive anyone who currently has posted less than the moderator

On the other hand, there is also the issue of quality over quantity. Some people like to post a ton to make themselves seem active, but they don't always say much