Ixion2010-08-07 18:46:54
Yes monks were tacked on culturally speaking and have loose, at best, ties with the orgs and their planes. Janalon and others have just worked hard to integrate them. Make 1 or 50 "shrines" to your concocted beliefs in the guild and it still won't have the deep connections that, say, guardians have with the half-formed beings or mages/druids and their affinities to those planes.
Edit: Monk envoys hang in there, it's rough to care while getting flamed 24/7 when instead of being able to help fix things you're left with a system that allows only a few changes at a time.
Edit: Monk envoys hang in there, it's rough to care while getting flamed 24/7 when instead of being able to help fix things you're left with a system that allows only a few changes at a time.
Janalon2010-08-07 18:49:32
QUOTE (Ixion @ Aug 7 2010, 01:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes monks were tacked on culturally speaking and have loose, at best, ties with the orgs and their planes. Janalon and others have just worked hard to integrate them. Make 1 or 50 "shrines" to your concocted beliefs in the guild and it still won't have the deep connections that, say, guardians have with the half-formed beings or mages/druids and their affinities to those planes.
Then whose responsibility is it to provide better integration? Guild members? The respective organizational leadership? Divine patrons? The game administration? All of the above?
Gregori2010-08-07 18:53:34
I really don't get the big deal if they were 'tacked on'. So what? You moved into your org, stop trying to "find your historical reason for being there" you don't have one. Adapt, accept the fact you are the new family in the neighborhood. Unless you moved into an all white neighborhood with pillowcases on their head and you are... pink..., then your org should accept you and that's all you need. Stop trying to find RP that doesn't exist and create your own RP as yourselves.
Ixion2010-08-07 18:56:01
QUOTE (Janalon @ Aug 7 2010, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then whose responsibility is it to provide better integration? Guild members? The respective organizational leadership? Divine patrons? The game administration? All of the above?
Without trying to derail this thread too much, all of the above but the basis really should be coded to some degree. Player made groundwork tends to end up backfiring at some point and making the entire guild want to QQ, and naturally that's to be expected when something coded IC is divergent from the player created norm. The argument of an established backbone was delved into further than I care to I believe when the new cities came out, perhaps Shiribot can pluck it for you. And honestly, your dislike for those comments has nothing to do with the point of this thread. Monks need to desperately be balanced, that's all.
Janalon2010-08-07 19:22:11
It's in the best interest of the Basin at large to balance monks. Even monks want monks to be balanced. We are doing what we can to make ineffective skills fixxed, while trying to balance out OP skills. Case in point: Thul bugged choke & oothai; I addressed how the 3-power lunge mod greatly increases wounds AND wounding modifiers. It can't be nerf, nerf, nerf all the time. Skill sets like psychometabolism need attention too. My intolerance is for those who forum rage hate on monks when we are working within our confined limits to address RP and combat mechanics.
Anyway, Sahm offered his suggestions. I've offered mine. There are several other valid ideas unfortunately buried in this thread. Would love to hear other constructive suggestions.
Anyway, Sahm offered his suggestions. I've offered mine. There are several other valid ideas unfortunately buried in this thread. Would love to hear other constructive suggestions.
Malarious2010-08-13 09:14:25
On a minor side note for monks...
The Nekotai and Ninjakari already shared a clan we did alot of talking about skills on. We went ahead and got another clan for all four monk guilds to join called "Something Monkish" which will be used mainly to review skills and address them.
If members cant come to an agreement on a change that is direly needed we will find a way to work around it. For those who wish to know what we discuss you can PM a number of us and I dont think there would be a problem informing anyone.
This months targets:
+ Momentum boost skills (report 450) are being made faster, but will not gain 2 momentum when used anymore.
+ Tahtetso have agreed to nerf the skill that allows double hemiplegy
+ We are hoping to also Upgrade their crushedwindpipe maneuver. We may have a slot for this, we are waiting on another change.
+ Shofangi greenlock is under review, we have a few ideas but we have to work with the envoy on this one, its a bear to balance out.
+ Nekotai will likely envoy Oothai if it was not a bug.
If any envoys find themselves with an open slot, please inform either one of the envoys, Ethelon, or Myself.
We are working on things! Slowly but surely!
The Nekotai and Ninjakari already shared a clan we did alot of talking about skills on. We went ahead and got another clan for all four monk guilds to join called "Something Monkish" which will be used mainly to review skills and address them.
If members cant come to an agreement on a change that is direly needed we will find a way to work around it. For those who wish to know what we discuss you can PM a number of us and I dont think there would be a problem informing anyone.
This months targets:
+ Momentum boost skills (report 450) are being made faster, but will not gain 2 momentum when used anymore.
+ Tahtetso have agreed to nerf the skill that allows double hemiplegy
+ We are hoping to also Upgrade their crushedwindpipe maneuver. We may have a slot for this, we are waiting on another change.
+ Shofangi greenlock is under review, we have a few ideas but we have to work with the envoy on this one, its a bear to balance out.
+ Nekotai will likely envoy Oothai if it was not a bug.
If any envoys find themselves with an open slot, please inform either one of the envoys, Ethelon, or Myself.
We are working on things! Slowly but surely!
Unknown2010-08-13 09:18:09
Should consider hyperactive's effects not applying to kata forms.
Malarious2010-08-13 09:22:09
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Aug 13 2010, 05:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Should consider hyperactive's effects not applying to kata forms.
Hyperactive should never have been made.
I tried to envoy it to NOT be what it is way back as a Nihilist, it was rejected/ignored and continues today. And what can you change it to that people wont whine about?
EDIT: Anyone have a slot for it perchance?
Unknown2010-08-13 09:25:41
That's it. Just have hyperactive's effects not work for kata forms.
Malarious2010-08-13 09:28:10
QUOTE (Sojiro @ Aug 13 2010, 05:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That's it. Just have hyperactive's effects not work for kata forms.
That doesnt give it much it can work on at that point, it should be usable for someone (besides maybe really dosed tarot bards).
I was thinking just like +1 lvl bal and make it a def. But people didnt seem happy bout that either.
Unknown2010-08-13 09:34:10
Fair enough. Consider reducing its power cost if it goes through.
Or maybe have it increase eq time by x amount too (probably not double) so it's useful for bards.
Or maybe have it increase eq time by x amount too (probably not double) so it's useful for bards.
Shiri2010-08-13 09:44:09
Report #111 Skillset: Acrobatics Skill: Hyperactive
Guild: Shofangi Status: Rejected Jan 2009
Problem: Hyperactive is pretty much useless for most bards, who use
glamours/ecology and music, and overpowered for all monks with access to it.
Since it's a trans ability it should be useful for all guilds, but the huge
balance boost it provides isn't fair at any rate.
Solution #1: Make it a timed def for 10p that prevents stun, sprawling,
(paralysis?) instead of cutting balance loss. It might want to last a bit longer
than hyperactive has.
Solution #2: Make it a 10p permanent def that cuts stun time (and balance loss?)
by an appreciable fraction (50%?).
Solution #3: 5p (or so) stun "immunity", similar to how athletics has poison
"immunity."
Furies' Decision:
We do like these solutions but pending a new admin report we're interested in
replacing the functionality of Hyperactive.
Anyone know what happened after this?
Guild: Shofangi Status: Rejected Jan 2009
Problem: Hyperactive is pretty much useless for most bards, who use
glamours/ecology and music, and overpowered for all monks with access to it.
Since it's a trans ability it should be useful for all guilds, but the huge
balance boost it provides isn't fair at any rate.
Solution #1: Make it a timed def for 10p that prevents stun, sprawling,
(paralysis?) instead of cutting balance loss. It might want to last a bit longer
than hyperactive has.
Solution #2: Make it a 10p permanent def that cuts stun time (and balance loss?)
by an appreciable fraction (50%?).
Solution #3: 5p (or so) stun "immunity", similar to how athletics has poison
"immunity."
Furies' Decision:
We do like these solutions but pending a new admin report we're interested in
replacing the functionality of Hyperactive.
Anyone know what happened after this?
Malarious2010-08-13 10:40:51
QUOTE (Shiri @ Aug 13 2010, 05:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Report #111 Skillset: Acrobatics Skill: Hyperactive
Guild: Shofangi Status: Rejected Jan 2009
Problem: Hyperactive is pretty much useless for most bards, who use
glamours/ecology and music, and overpowered for all monks with access to it.
Since it's a trans ability it should be useful for all guilds, but the huge
balance boost it provides isn't fair at any rate.
Solution #1: Make it a timed def for 10p that prevents stun, sprawling,
(paralysis?) instead of cutting balance loss. It might want to last a bit longer
than hyperactive has.
Solution #2: Make it a 10p permanent def that cuts stun time (and balance loss?)
by an appreciable fraction (50%?).
Solution #3: 5p (or so) stun "immunity", similar to how athletics has poison
"immunity."
Furies' Decision:
We do like these solutions but pending a new admin report we're interested in
replacing the functionality of Hyperactive.
Anyone know what happened after this?
Guild: Shofangi Status: Rejected Jan 2009
Problem: Hyperactive is pretty much useless for most bards, who use
glamours/ecology and music, and overpowered for all monks with access to it.
Since it's a trans ability it should be useful for all guilds, but the huge
balance boost it provides isn't fair at any rate.
Solution #1: Make it a timed def for 10p that prevents stun, sprawling,
(paralysis?) instead of cutting balance loss. It might want to last a bit longer
than hyperactive has.
Solution #2: Make it a 10p permanent def that cuts stun time (and balance loss?)
by an appreciable fraction (50%?).
Solution #3: 5p (or so) stun "immunity", similar to how athletics has poison
"immunity."
Furies' Decision:
We do like these solutions but pending a new admin report we're interested in
replacing the functionality of Hyperactive.
Anyone know what happened after this?
I would say you should have Sadie envoy it but theres already something else on the table, but any suggestions for hyperactive would be fine.
Any other envoys wanna hit hyper for us?
Shiri2010-08-13 10:44:19
Well, there's no point envoying it again if it's already lurking somewhere in the process and can be fixed on that basis.
Nariah2010-08-13 12:41:36
Ask Destridas, he was looking for an idea for the Nihilist slot yesterday.
Janalon2010-08-14 00:24:21
Still on vaccation checking in from my iPhone. Glad to hear the Lusty-wide monk clan came together. Sounds like this could be a productive month envoy-wise regarding monk balance issues. I have a quick question about the momentum building skills report. In the one-line summary, it sounds like we will loose the +2 momentum boost for a general speed boost. Could you go into more detail here on the forums?
Was wondering if you could also add the speed mod to this form? Can you add kick actions as well? If so, I could forsee issues arising out of using this action (as I understand you have proposed), add a speed mod, and then an afflicting kick. In particular, Nekotai has a bleeding kick and bleeding kick mod. Could see how this could get out of hand quickly.
Was wondering if you could also add the speed mod to this form? Can you add kick actions as well? If so, I could forsee issues arising out of using this action (as I understand you have proposed), add a speed mod, and then an afflicting kick. In particular, Nekotai has a bleeding kick and bleeding kick mod. Could see how this could get out of hand quickly.
Krellan2010-08-14 00:27:12
oh god vacation? No wonder i can't find any poisonists 
Placeus2010-08-14 01:09:04
QUOTE (Malarious @ Aug 13 2010, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
+ Momentum boost skills (report 450) are being made faster, but will not gain 2 momentum when used anymore.
Perhaps i'm misunderstanding something, but why would you want to make the build up skills faster? They're already significantly quicker than other monk attacks and people are already complaining about the speed of the normal ones.
Esano2010-08-14 01:20:34
They'll no longer give you additional momentum, and they won't be at double speed, so it overall reduces the speed you can build up momentum at.
Unknown2010-08-14 03:22:41
QUOTE
Report #450 Skillset: Kata Skill: None
Guild: Ninjakari Status: Unsubmitted
Problem: Monks are fast. While many attribute a monk's speed to balance time, a major cause to a monk's ability to apply many severe afflictions in a short amount of time is due to what I will refer to as the momentum boosters. These are Kaife, Ninchu, Tahto'sho, and Shotah. Most of the severe afflictions are balanced through momentum loss penalties causing a monk to lose one, two, or three momentum in one form depending on how aggressive the form is. Smark monks know not to drop below momentum level 2 as they can easily use their momentum booster to counteract the momentum loss. Essentially, monks are able to land severe afflictions rapidly with very easy momentum management, nullifying the cost of momentum losses and easily overpowering an opponent with no real way to slow them down.
Solution #1: Reduce the momentum boosters (Kaife, Ninchu, Tahto'sho, and Shotah) effectiveness by lowering the momentum gain to one, but simultaneously, having the attack decrease the form's balance time by 25%. It is assumed that the momentum boosters are inherently the same speed as other skills before the percentage is reduced.
Solution #2: Reduce the momentum boosters (Kaife, Ninchu, Tahto'sho, and Shotah) effectiveness by lowering the momentum gain to one, but simultaneously, having the attack decrease the form's balance time by 33% and eliminating the possibility of using a leg action in the same form (does not consume leg balance, but allows for out-of=form kicks). It is assumed that the momentum boosters are inherently the same speed as other skills before the percentage is reduced.
Solution #3: Provide a solution here.
Guild: Ninjakari Status: Unsubmitted
Problem: Monks are fast. While many attribute a monk's speed to balance time, a major cause to a monk's ability to apply many severe afflictions in a short amount of time is due to what I will refer to as the momentum boosters. These are Kaife, Ninchu, Tahto'sho, and Shotah. Most of the severe afflictions are balanced through momentum loss penalties causing a monk to lose one, two, or three momentum in one form depending on how aggressive the form is. Smark monks know not to drop below momentum level 2 as they can easily use their momentum booster to counteract the momentum loss. Essentially, monks are able to land severe afflictions rapidly with very easy momentum management, nullifying the cost of momentum losses and easily overpowering an opponent with no real way to slow them down.
Solution #1: Reduce the momentum boosters (Kaife, Ninchu, Tahto'sho, and Shotah) effectiveness by lowering the momentum gain to one, but simultaneously, having the attack decrease the form's balance time by 25%. It is assumed that the momentum boosters are inherently the same speed as other skills before the percentage is reduced.
Solution #2: Reduce the momentum boosters (Kaife, Ninchu, Tahto'sho, and Shotah) effectiveness by lowering the momentum gain to one, but simultaneously, having the attack decrease the form's balance time by 33% and eliminating the possibility of using a leg action in the same form (does not consume leg balance, but allows for out-of=form kicks). It is assumed that the momentum boosters are inherently the same speed as other skills before the percentage is reduced.
Solution #3: Provide a solution here.
Assuming an average balance time of 2.8 seconds, you'd get the following results:
Current time to gain 2 momentum: <2.8 seconds in 1 form (they're faster compared to other actions) versus 5.6s in 2 forms (normal skills).
Solution 1: 4.2 seconds in 2 forms versus 5.6s in 2 forms.
Solution 2: 3.7 seconds in 2 forms versus 5.6s in 2 forms.
It's important to remember that these skills are two-handed, and I don't foresee anyone actually using them to gain 2 momentum. If anything, they'd be used to quickly gain 1 momentum to reach a needed level. For example, to go from mo2 to mo3 to use a combo at mo3.
The purpose of this nerf is to get rid of the tactic of using mo4/mo5 form that causes 2 to 3 momentum loss and then to immediately get it back. Monks will actually have to rebuild momentum.
