No, you're not able to do commodities quests if your enemied to the controlling org.

Why should it be any easier to raise feelings for commercial? There are a lot more commodities quests you can do than there are villagers to kill or influence in the case of religious/conquest styles...

P.S. Please fix Ixthiaxa.

All that however is divided between 12 villages, and several of those commodity beasts, especially rockeaters and deer, are limited due to either being in the territory of another org, or in the undervault/underwater, locations that are very annoying/difficult to get to. Nor does every village accept everything. And if you're enemied to a village, my experience tells me you can't do the village quests.

Religious, while it has a specific cap, is very easy because all you need to do is rush through and turn on the auto-influencer. Except for very specific mobs and the new UV villages (and Angkrag for 2/3rds of the basin), influencing a mob takes all of half a minute. Compared to the long time it takes to gather the commodity beasts.

The time it takes me to gather the rockeaters in the mountain-range around the basin is about the same time it takes me to influence all the denizens in Delport. But there are fewer rock-eaters in the mountain-range than there are denizens in Delport.

And? This doesn't count rockeaters found:

-In the Undervault
-In the Inner Sea
-In the Sea of Despair
-In the mountain villages, and Dairuchi
-Other assorted random places, like the path to Shallamurine from the Presidio

I wouldn't doubt Eventru's number for a moment. Now, if you want to argue that this would be a whole lot more work than just influencing denizens in the village, that's another thing.

That's a very good point. Instead of it being astrologically predictable, there could be some other means of making it rhythmic. For instance, you have to do something to declare a conquest is starting, and once you do, conquest works for a day and then not for the four following. Or something.

I'd just like to see it where there's no pressure on you to raid 24 hours a day to keep up with the benefits you need to accrue to make Conquest profitable; and there's no need for us to defend 24 hours a day. (It would also move away from one-man kill-one-and-run raids on two-hit-kill youths, towards tactically organized raids, which I wouldn't mind... even though I'm far more likely to be useful in the former than the latter, at my present state of development.)

To agree with Eventru, the fact that there are so many commodity quests should make Commercial easier to maintain. Celest did over 4000 commodity quests in a year and a half, the majority coming from three (maybe a little crazy) people.

This probably wouldn't happen, but I think it would be sweet to put a hard number to the village feelings, like how the family honour system works (or not works, depending on how you look at it). Then if I was really pushing the wish list, I'd ask to see the hard number continue through the actual revolt influence process, but I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that.

Eh, make denizens under the sphere of a conquest government that are killed decrease respect for said government. Its the best way to make the raidings a two way street. Or at least make the conquest government have to work a little harder for their holdings.

I mean, religious and commercial are countered by the denizens being dead anyway. So make it a two way street.

Er, you do realize that if you're Conquest you don't get power, correct? As well as limited commodity income.

You get Conquest pool, which we're still not sure how it works in some respects, heh. But we do know it can only be used to pay for guards and discretionaries.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'fix Ixthiaxa'. If there's a bug, message me in-game with its bug ID#.

I can expound on the number of commodity quests that can be done at any given time, but I think I listed the most readily accessible (without touching things like 'wood' which there's an entire quest you can do to get a lot of raw wood from).

And between gems, meat, wood, fish and cloth/silk etc, I think every village should have an 'accessible' commodity quest.

I also still think that the ages old secret of 'animals do not cry out' is still true - from early days when one could raid dairuchi for rockeaters/marble slabs they dropped, or dairuchi/Angkrag for silk spinnerets (which can also be produced elsewhere via a quest!).

Sorry. I just have a hard time buying there's a lack of commodity quests about - frankly, there may be too many for luxury items like gems and silk.

I'm going to go back over some stuff and look at rewards etc for quests/influencing/killing and see if any increases are necessary. Seems to me like there may be some need for it (which I've suspected - and we expected).

The problem with something like village influencing/feelings is... I can crunch numbers all day on a great variety of things, but 'how it plays out' is the most important thing of all. I mean, looking at the numbers, 5 people who know what they're doing should be able to take a village in about five, ten minutes tops. And the more people that join that will cause the time-to-win to drop drastically. We've not changed those numbers at all - in fact, it should be markedly easier to take some of the less-populated villages than before. The score-to-win is based off of how many influencable denizens are loyal to that village, so you literally need a % of the village to win (or a % lead over the closest opposition, if there is opposition).

We're watching though and happy to tweak as time goes on.

Must find this wood quest! I always disliked how the communes had such an advantage when it came to wood production. There should be a way for city folk to plant trees (maybe somewhere to get seeds, and it would take some time to grow into a sapling).

We live in forests, how would we NOT have an advantage in wood production?

One day the Serenwilde and Glomdoring are going to suffer from mass deforestation......

They would have already, but SOMEONE decided that Pyromancers didn't NEED a forestfire skill

Hrm, yeah, I wasn't saying that it didn't make sense. There's just no trade off for cities whatsoever, leaving us the three or so small areas outside the forests, hoping someone else grows a sapling and you happen to catch it mature. I'm just jealous. I wanna grow my own tree.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent!

Not sure if it's been considered, but most all of the other cities who hold a village currently are despotic too - a factor which might be looked over in the whole 'why aren't we getter better feelings/why is it harder to keep up feelings' bit that I've probably skipped over in the thread.

-toddles along-

I look forward to how these dynamics play out in future revolts!

It's pretty difficult for us to gauge how beneficial influencing/comm quests/killing other villagers is from our end or how much governing styles affect feelings, but I wouldn't mind some buffs!

I know that some people have mentioned this, but putting up a list of possible village feelings towards organisations would be dandy.

It's not just accessibility too though. It's time. Doing the "wood" quest mentioned takes a painful long time because THERE'S ONLY TWO APPLES! The time investment against payoff is skewed in favour for religious, because my example showed that I can get about 30 ticks of positive feelings from a religious village, in the time it takes me to get 10 ticks from a commercial village.

And commercial governments can't build positive feelings with enemied villages.

If it takes you that long to get 10 commercial ticks in a village, it would seem like you're going rather slowly... harvesting rockeaters (for example) takes pretty much no time. And there are far more rockeaters than village mobs (in the general village).

Further, when all mobs are influenced, you can do nothing further; however, there are always more comm quests to do (I'd say it's pretty much impossible for all of the resources to be depleted at once, heh).

Now, is this more constant time expended? Sure, if you're going all-out. At that same time, you have the option to go all-out, which you don't have with Religious or Conquest with some pretty severe time limitations (one set an hour-ish).

Not really. Hunting rockeaters in the Undervault is difficult, because of all the fishers, and the underwater rockeaters are hard to find and very time in-efficient. Walking and hunting all the rockeaters in a circle around the mountain takes the same amount of time as it takes to influence a city. That's the matter of time efficiency I'm talking about. It takes less time to influence a village than it takes to do the comm quests.

And the payoff ain't that great either. Influencing gives tasty tasty esteem. Comm quests give pocket-change.

Difficult for you != difficult for people in general, really. Fishers aren't that bad any more. And, for me, I can circle the mountains and kill the rockeaters far faster than I can influence (13 charisma, versus Demigod crits and a crit rune and a beast with trotting). Further, I could keep on doing commodity quests throughout whereas the influencer is stuck waiting for mind reset.

... also, I've never experienced villages to be all that great on esteem. 150ish rockeaters is 7500 gold (I believe they're 50 each, but if they're 75-100 then it's even fewer!). I'm not getting anywhere near 100 esteem from a village before I can catch 150 rockeaters. Especially with the Undervault.